Raise the Hammer

I cannot believe these images! It makes no sense.
What happend to reuse and innovation?
Disgusted by this newly exposed information.

I agree with you 100% Gary. But is there anything we can do now? The school board seems intransigent.

What do you think we could to to help you? Is City Hall the right venue for this fight? The school board? Somewhere else?

We have to expand the media coverage of the story. Encourage more in depth reporting of the Sanford School demolition by the Globe and Mail, Toronto Star, The National Post, CBC as well as all of our local media just as Raise the Hammer has done. Keep the pressure on City Council and the Provincial Government.

What utter bull shit. A few photos with "Yup looks good to me" is an expose? Of what? My son went to that school while another old wreck was demolished. I am very familiar with it and I know a few things about construction too.

All you have done is minimize the expense required to rehabilitate this building. If you and others believe it makes sense to maintain and operate Sanford I urge you to band together and hire a professional or reputable organization to inspect and assess this building. HWDSB did and clearly while a hazmat suit may not be required there is asbestos throughout the building. Any building this big and this old will require a large operating budget notwithstanding your few photos and single sentence anectdotes.

The only disgrace here is that this building was not pulled down years ago. If you want to question inner city versus suburban education spending that is where the issue may have some validity.

Frankly Gary this article is so disingenuous it undermines any credibility preserving Sanford may have had. Any structure can be rehabilitated, all it takes is money. This building like many of its age will be a money pit. Pretending that it is in far better condition will not change that nor will it convince those who require facts before supporting an issue.

Real developers with real money and real track records of restoration and adaptive reuse want to buy this building and renovate it. But the Board refuses to sell it and continues to lie about community suport and lie about needing to knock down the building for green space. That's the truth of this sordid affair and you're lust for destruction is part of the problem.

Don't these developers have names? What have they proposed to the board? If it is as good a deal as you are implying I am sure something can be done.

Pardon my skepticism but I have met people who claimed to be real estate "investors" and "developers" who have yet to buy their first property. I have met some too who are forever looking for some impossibly great deal they can literally flip overnight. A deal that leaves the HWDSB with environmental liabilities or one that requires possession to remain with the board while it is put to other uses is unlikely to be accepted. It would not be seen as being in the best interests of the Board.

I think before accusing HWDSB of misinforming the public or pursuing some secret agenda you should identify these "developers" and their plans.

You're a little late to the party. It's been in the news for months, the reason we're having a debate is this developer wants to make an offer on rhe buildin but the Board refuses to sell it and pretends it's carrying out the comunity will. Why don't you take a break from slandering Gary Santucci's character and learn a bit about what's really going on here.

My posts are based on the simple fact that without the requisite training a person can not simply enter a building and say "I don't see any hazards so it is not hazardous".

Nor can they look at an issue like water ingress and say "patch the roof over there and the leak over there will stop". Construction professionals do not simply eyeball a complex issue they have tests and test equipment to come to conclusions. Not GS though he has no credentials in the construction industry but he is so sure of himself he can simply say that HWDSB is lying about the condition of the school and pursuing a secret agenda.

That alone is sufficient to cement a reputation as big bag of wind. After reading this article I was ready to take him to task for that alone. I prepared a very critical post but then I saw the link he posted to the inspection and related documents such as the HWDSB 2009 Asbestos Inventory. I deleted my post rather than question his competence before I had the whole story. I read all of the linked documents and was appalled to discover they completely contradict what GS has said regarding the asbestos issue.

I did not set out to criticize anyone but between his arrogance that he can eyeball a structure like Sanford and his lies concerning the asbestos issue, he deserves far worse than anything I have said about him. If I really wanted to undermine his credibility all it would take is one link. I have kept the discussion focused on the Sanford issue, but you might want to investigate yourself and google Gary Santucci, Hamilton. It will give you a different perspective on GS.

The guy who is late to the party is Mike Clark. Oh I am not trying to stall things but at the 11 hour 59th minute but I have to ask whats the hurry... Yes that Mike Clark with his band of unnamed developers. Wow so that is it huh, sure sounds like Mike is stalling and others are pounding the drums. By the way he has not made an offer to purchase Sanford he has asked for time to prepare a "preliminary plan" which is not an offer either.

So I take it this is the sum total of all the "developers" ready to uhh develop Sanford. We will see if this preliminary plan actually involves anyone purchasing the property. My guess is not with that school on it but maybe Mikes "Invisible Five" will surface and show some long green.

I saw this on facebook, it is an excellent presentation. When looking at this, It just brings up more questions in my mind, as to ask what the hell is going on?

It was taxpayers dollar that originally built this school, it is the people by right that own it. For far too long, the people have been silent and accepted things, the status quo, which we all know needs to change.

I don't get it.

Why so much eagerness to destroy a perfectly good asset? Do the School Board really believe money grows on trees? Or do they just harbour a secret hatred for Hamilton and its people?

Certainly making the minor repairs that will enable this building to be functional would cost substantially less than tearing down and building new. Not to mention maintaining the heritage and the fact that structurally, buildings just aren't made to last like this any more.

It is not "a perfectly good asset". It is an old wreck riddled with asbestos which would cost a small fortune to operate.

Not sure how this isn't protected. It seems the local councilman sent this to committee to save the building. What happened?

Sorry, it was the local councillor who sent the plan to save the building back to committee.

"Clr. Morelli moved a motion, seconded by Clr. Merulla to send the Heritage Committee report back to the Planning Committee on Sept 12, 2012, for discussion, which finally appeared on the agenda of the Planning Committee, only on Jan 15, 2013 - where the Planning Committee voted to receive the report with no further action taken."

see also; http://www.thespec.com/opinion/columns/article/869823--councillor-morelli-and-ward-muscle

Wait...so what does that mean?

Heritage committee report was sent back for discussion, and it was received without discussion...

So...who's ball is the court in now?

This article will expalin the time line;
http://www.thespec.com/opinion/columns/article/869823--councillor-morelli-and-ward-muscle

Thank you Gary for taking this issue and making certain that both the school board and Bernie and other council members are exposed. It is outrageous that such a beautiful building would be destroyed for a soccer field. What I wonder why the voices that were screaming save the board if Ed building, Gore buildings and no to the casino are noticeably silent when it comes to Sanford?

All the usual suspects have been braying to save this: Crawford, Butani, Santucci. Urbanicity rote a scathing article from Lawyer Michael P Clarke. The outcry is there.

Considering how easily you accessed the interior of the school, I'm astonished it hasn't been demolished by vandals internally.

Who's downvoting all these comments? This whole story is very strange. Hopefully Tim Simmons gets voted out in the coming election.

The children sometimes play inside. The community respects this building.
More graffiti on Pinky then Sanford. They kids played there until 2 years ago.
I look forward to seeing how this is explained and how people react when they see
How it is very manageable shape. Estimated cost of demolition 300,000.
No one hasshown funding to backfill and landscape either.
Let's hope if given the opportunity council chooses to now step in and make this right.

What is the annual estimated operating cost of the building? I would bet not a sole here has bothered to investigate. If I was in favor of this I certainly would be investigating that. Unless of course some people know from prior experience that the operating cost for even a few years would greatly exceed $300K, the cost of demolition. If that was the case you might want to simply try and minimize the maintenance and repairs required the way GS has.

It's such a beautiful building, it's sad people have to fight to preserve it. I don't think the school board has the right to keep destroying.

For me the money quote is "All stairwells are of steel". Anyone know the current going rate for steel?

Not that great for scrap. The money is in alloys, right now.

I've sent an email to my local councilman. I'm sure his desire is for the people of his ward and not wanton destruction. Lay the blame with school board. Eva Rothwell is a good example of how he feels about adaptive reuse. Gary will also attest to his support for The Pearl Company.

I know that sometimes the issues are difficult to understand. Your confusion can be understood and forgiven.

There are no profits for the developers if a building is saved.All those campaign dollars to assure a prompt and sly disposal means the flow of support dollars can continue unabated.If it comes down soon, all will be well and its buisiness as usual.We of course get screwed over with more sleaze as always

Break and enter or willful misrepresentation of source of photos?

It doesn't say Gary took the photos, it says that these photos have recently surfaced.

Maybe you took the photos and posted them online.

The door is clearly a ajar in one of the photos. At worst this is trespassing, not break and enter (a criminal offense).

That would not be Tim Simmons talking so recklessly about charges would it?
I witnessed children in and out of that building on several occasions in fact I asked them to stop going inside.
Hazardous yet not Monitored. Hmmm which call shall I make first about those kids safety and whom shall I implicate Sir? Ofcourse that would mean I actually believed those ideas which I don't yet. Waiting for more info. Enjoy your Sunday.

Were told that we must follow the process.
But little do they know _ We ARE the process.
Keep up the good work.
Bravo!!!

Applause and Bravo to Gary Santucci and Mahesh Butani for caring enough for this city to stand up and fight agaisnt the old guard. Passionate people like Gary and Mahesh who take the time to write articles that inform the public of the wrongs that are happening behind closed doors. Knowledge is power. This city can once again prosper if we continue to expose the old guard that keep destroying this city.

You’re right, dancer. These buildings are magnificent works of art that skilled craftsmen built with pride. We wouldn’t let someone put a match to the Mona Lisa, so why does Hamilton allow HWDSB to mindlessly, thoughtlessly destroy these beauties? (Class) clowns should not be in charge of a school board.

It drives me crazy to think about all that building material going to waste. We tear all that stuff out of the ground, ruining landscapes. After all these years, it remains in excellent condition, and then we just waste it and turn it into clean fill. Disgusting.

Hey guys. I had a chat with a relative this weekend, one who taught in the school, less than 5 years ago.

She had some interesting things to say about it. Like how the whole place is full of asbestos. Like the other nasty stuff in the walls and ceilings. Like how the bones of the school aren't sound. Like why they are not proceeding with restoration.

Is this demolition by neglect? Or is it that the cost to reuse outweighs the cost to raze? Sure, it looks nice, but take the nice pieces out, and use in a new school (adaptive reuse).

Silence!!! You shall not speak of these things while others with no relevant credentials pronounce it pristine. I down vote you and shun you as a pariah until you drink the kool-aid of enlightenment.

If there is Asbestos in there it will have to be removed regardless of wether the building is demolished or refurbished. Of course knowing how the board respects the residents of the lower city I wouldn't be surprised if they just demo the place and let the asbestos blow around.

Ah, but the way you remove it is totally different. Your ridiculous comment aside, it's a heck of a lot easier and cheaper to remove asbestos when not worrying about the walls or ceilings than when attempting to remove and preserve.

Damn you and your "facts". If we collectively close our eyes and click the heels of our ruby slippers we can make Sanford into the jewel it is described as being now.

So the asbestos which is now SO SO dangerous (that nothing can be done) was not dangerous 3 years ago when occupied by kids.

I spent a (lovely) summer removing asbestos insulation from Toronto Board of Ed Schools in 1984. There was a federal program paying for it. I guess somehow Hamilton missed out.

And no despite your assertion the way you remove it is pretty much the same. You just save on the refinishing when you demo.

No you are factually incorrect. Check the HWDSB 2009 Asbestos Inventory. Given the paths of the hydronic heating system there are pipes above drywalled and or finished ceilings and walls. Like the rest of these heating system pipes they will be wrapped in asbestos. If the ceilings and walls are being removed the asbestos can then be removed from these locations without the considerable expense of reconstruction. Nice summer job though pal.

It was dangerous then, when the school was open. But as you should know, asbestos becomes much more dangerous when disturbed than when undisturbed due to the particles getting into the air.

Like I've said before, while in high school in Dundas, my school had these lovely 'asbestos tents' in the halls where they were tarps running floor to ceiling while they were remediating the asbestos problem there. These tents were up for months and regularly were opened, pulled down, or ripped. It was, I guess, an occupational hazard at the time. It's the same there.

And yes, what I was getting at regarding remediation is that you can be more careless in the holes/walls removed for remediation as you don't have to worry aobut coivering it up, making it look nice, etc.

Nice! So the hamilton board of Ed went to the trouble of removing the asbestos from your school in Dundas but not from Stanford School in the lower city. You have my friend, just proved my point about the Hamilton Board of Education having a chronic disregard for the health and safety of children in the lower city.
This was a federally funded project back in the day (1984 is the day right?). So they did the Dundas schools? but not the lower city schools? This was 'some else's money'. Since your so all knowing perhaps you have a good explaination as to why lower city schools were left as toxic waste dumps and your school in Dundas was improved?

Or are you now going to tell me that asbestos is only dangerous to children of parents that might complain.


The ultimate irony will be when it turns out 'your' school is the one in Dundas being converted to condos.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT 'DEMOLITION BY NEGLECT' YET.

In your own words you've proven that schools in better neighborhoods were maintained. And this is something that's been going on for almost 30 years.

Im really beginning to believe that the board of Ed is one of lower cities worst enemies.

As for your friends in the (all mighty) teachers union... perhaps it's time to think about the bigger good if you see asbestos COMPLAIN this is health and safety issue, not only for you but for your STUDENTS. But i guess just like extra curriculars this is now an issue for parents .

My school was done about 10 years after your posted date. I can't comment on the why, this is pre-amalgamation, although the school boards were harmonized at that time. To tie that in to the anti-urban agenda is laughable.

I don't claim to be all knowing, just providing alternate insight into something. Did you go to high school in Dundas? Did you go to high school in Hamilton? Do you teach, or are related to someone who teaches in the downtown area?

By the way, I live in a building in the core, which almost certainly has asbestos in the walls - it's of the right vintage to have it, and I do have concerns about what it might do to me and my family.

Your faulty analogy that the 'burbs get it better than the central city is a joke. Any school made from, let's say, the 1920s to about the 1970s would have asbestos. It's more a matter of how it's been maintained. In our school it was triggered (if memory serves) because tiles started becoming unglued in the hall ceilings and falling down, which was stirring up the asbestos. A lot of the city's old schools have been neglected - there's several in Dundas, Westdale, and Ancaster that are the same as those in the core.

It's not all a conspiracy to see the downtown area fail while the burbs sit back and laugh.

The environmental reports say no such things. We will be publishing a summary analysis with the documents available on-line. Anecdotal evidence serves no purpose at this time. Leave it alone until you see the facts.

That is an outright lie. The environmental reports state that asbestos floor coverings, ceiling tiles, heat shields and counter tops are found in a number of areas, especially in the lower levels and the boiler room.

The largest asbestos issue is with the piping used to conduct water through the heating system. The asbestos pipe wrap is in poor condition where it is visible and likely in similar condition where it is not visible. These asbestos wrapped pipes are found in every part of the building. Frequently they are concealed behind walls and above ceilings. You provided the link to these documents.

When you say "we will be publishing" you are obviously hoping people will not bother to read them but will wait for your "summary analysis". Some of the gullible may wait for your pronouncement of the "truth". I highly recommend people read these themselves. They will be shocked to discover the magnitude of your misrepresentation. There is a major asbestos problem at Sanford and there is a mold issue (severity undetermined). This is the most blatant case of disinformation (on the part of Gary Santucci) I have seen at the local level. What a disgrace to try and pass this off as some sort of expose.

The guy with the single line photo anecdotes does not want any one else using anecdotes to support opposing ideas.

I strongly urge people to thumb through the 2009 Asbestos Inventory of Sanford themselves. It clearly shows the magnitude of the issue. I am sure GS's summary analysis will be as meaningful as his stunning expose photos in this article. So unbiased too, I can't wait to see if this analysis is as rational.

single line photo anecdotes

Hey, I love your brand new term for annotated photographic evidence! So wonderfully dismissive. Defense lawyers should pounce on this:

"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, make no mistake, the Prosecution is going to try to confuse you with its numerous single line photo anecdotes of the accused committing the murder..."

That is hilarious, exactly what are GS's photos proof of? Am I forgetting that he is an accredited professional of some sort who is so succinct that his one line toss off's are pearls of wisdom? No he is not qualified to dismiss the work of industry professionals with that series of photos or anything he has uttered attached to them or otherwise.

"Here, see for your self how my selected images represent the whole". Anyone who has been in that school in the last twenty years who has several years of relevant construction experience knows otherwise.

Don't take my word for it if you or anyone else thinks his photos show evidence of anything but Santucci's ignorance or mendacity, go right ahead represent them as an expose. You and he will be laughing stocks.

He only reluctantly provided a link to the inspection documents he claims are incorrect. He discourages readers from them by offering to filter all their "anecdotal lab reports" and "anecdotal assessments" by qualified professionals into a distillation of his own.

I would advise anyone who really wants to know the truth about the condition of this building to read the reports themselves rather than have GS do their thinking for them. Personally I just can not abide this campaign of disinformation regardless of it's intent.

Sure, but for now in the absence of YOUR facts, I'll take the word of someone I know and trust who worked in the building, not someone who hasn't and admires how it looks.

Sorry, the facts are from actual school board reports on lead and asbestos. Enviro-Core, the company hired to report on the conditions inside the building found moisture in the building as a result of open windows and a leak in the roof.

Incorrect, they acknowledged water entry from the broken windows and the roof.

You on the other hand fail to mention that "microbial growth was observed throughout the complex and was noticed by olfactory perception as well as visually". Lead paint is found in paint in several areas and is highly concentrated in window caulkings at Sanford.

Asbestos floor coverings, ceiling tiles, heat shields and counter tops are found in a number of areas, especially in the lower levels and the boiler room. The largest asbestos issue is with the piping used to conduct water through the heating system. The asbestos pipe wrap is in poor condition where it is visible and likely in similar condition where it is not visible behind finished walls and ceilings. In many ways it is the heating system that dooms the building as it is literally covered in asbestos and it requires a crew to operate and maintain. It is a case of damned if you do damned if you don't. Rip it and the asbestos out and face huge expense, maintain it and face huge operating costs.

Where are these reports? What is the scope of them? You keep claiming you'll provide them - where are they?

My my aren't we impatient. Perhaps if you worked as hard as others in doing your own research you would have had them by now. Anyway here you go (whatever your name is)

http://metrohamilton.ning.com/profiles/blogs/toxic-minds-or-a-toxic-building-breach-of-trust-at-sanford-avenue

So based on the article that Mahesh wrote that you reference, the asbestos report (which clearly says not to photocopy or distribute, but has been anyway) says the school is full of asbestos. In just about everything. That's not safe.

defamatory comment deleted

Comment edited by administrator Ryan on 2013-02-05 14:17:14

You may want to take up your point with the School Board
as they, according to your logic, have knowingly exposed hundreds of students and scores of teachers to this harmful environment over the years. Perhaps you should also organize the parents for a class action lawsuit in this matter as well.

Gary, I think it might be me you were trying to respond to.

Asbestos is found in nearly every building who's construction dates from 1880-1980. In the 1970's the Canadian government was finally pressured into declaring asbestos a hazardous substance. They had resisted doing so for decades. No meaningful federal asbestos legislation has been passed since. This has allowed asbestos mining to continue up until this year when the last two Quebec mines collapsed financially after their Jean Charest $50M bailout dough ran out.

Few commercial, industrial or institutional property owners wanted to have to remove asbestos from their possessions. The Canadian government regardless of who is at the helm still insists asbestos can be used "safely". It is what their benefactors want and it saves governments at all levels the cost and inconvenience of removing a lot of asbestos from a large number of buildings.

Ontario law requires an "Asbestos Management Plan" be implemented in buildings such as Sanford. Asbestos in a friable condition is permitted to be encapsulated by wrapping it tightly and thoroughly with plastic wrap. Above plastered ceilings and in walls these pipes remain unseen for decades until a leak develops in an area that requires emergency attention. Typical procedure would be to remove only as much of the ceiling or wall as is required to repair the pipe and encapsulate a section of it. Floor to ceiling plastic would isolate the area and ducted fans used to create negative pressure to keep particles within the repair zone. This is the basic process that allows asbestos to remain in public and private buildings.

If I thought for a minute a class action law suit would have a snow balls chance in hell of winning I would gladly support it. Of course any person suffering from an asbestos related disease should consider the possibility exposure occurred in a school. Now if you are a developer do you want to take on a building containing asbestos? For a developer it is purely a financial decision but the presence of asbestos will play a major role in determining the cost to purchase or operate. This entire article is a disgrace Gary.

One or some of both of the following applies to you.

1.If you truly believe there are minimal hazards and only easily manageable repairs required then you have not read (with comprehension) the HWDSB inspections and reports you have linked to. In this case a fool has rushed in nearly totally unprepared.

2.You do understand that you are vastly understating the hazards and maintenance required. Perhaps cynically rationalizing this as using the same methods as the "other side".

My money is on a fool who rushed in who has probably managed to rationalize thus far but who will now be doing some very serious back pedaling when the number of miles of asbestos wrapped pipe is determined.

If you have been well intentioned but somewhat foolish do not be ashamed to admit it. Any person who claims to have never been a fool is a liar.

Step out from behind your anonymity and have the courage to insult me with your real name.

I am registered here and I post under my name. You are the anonymous poster here though obviously you too are using your real name.

" Now if you are a developer do you want to take on a building containing asbestos? For a developer it is purely a financial decision but the presence of asbestos will play a major role in determining the cost to purchase or operate."

What you do not seem to get is THERE ARE ALREADY DEVELOPERS IN HAMILTON WHO KNOW ABOUT THE ASBESTOS AND WANT TO BUY THIS BUILDING. Developers buy buildings with asbestos and have it abated ALL THE TIME. This building is not any different. It's a solid candidate for renovation, it just needs the school board to be willing to sell it to them instead of knock it down, when they will have to abate the asbestos anyway.

I realize that but it greatly affects the purchase price and the terms of the purchase.

A developer may offer to purchase conditional on asbestos abatement. A developer may want to utilize the property without remediating the asbestos and other hazards. In this case responsibility for the environmental issues would fall back to HWDSB. Unless the details of which "developer" is "interested" and what they are proposing is known; it is impossible to know if the proposal is something the HWDSB would or should enter in to.

I am sure that a serious proposal would be of interest to the Board. If the price is at current market value, the buyer has the financial ability to close the sale and the sale will end the Boards environmental liability, they would be the corporate version of insane not to complete such a deal.

If you have proof that this has happened or is happening please enlighten me. So far I have only heard that unnamed "Developers" are "Interested". I have met a number of real estate "Investors" and "Developers" who have yet to purchase even a single property. These are the same types who bestow unto themselves the SELF DESCRIBED title of "Consultant" "Entrepreneur" or better yet "Philanthropist". Lots of people walk around making big noises about things they know very little about and hide behind self described titles backed by zero credentials and very damn little cash.
You people are trying to save a building. That is fine with me, good for you I wish you luck. What I strongly object to is the way Gary Santucci has minimized and distorted the condition of the building. The ends may be wonderful but it is wrong to intentionally mislead people especially when the majority of the people who read this publication are allies. You are misleading the very people who are likely to support this issue. I think it is the worst kind of manipulation. I am not talking about a little spin here and there or oops your bias is showing. It is an outright misrepresentation and I loathe that regardless of its possibly good intentions.

GS minimizes and distorts the conditions of many things. He's a well-known slum lord, who houses crack dealers, then claims he's single-handedly cleaning up the neighbourhood. This is not misinformation.

Interesting point of view Conrad666. The facts speak for themselves. The City Government doesn't need me to make them look bad, as you state.

Gary ... that was not me that stated that comment someone is playing games with sreen name

Thanks for clarifying

Tear it down - it's an eye sore and a relic - the elephant will sit a long time like the Connaught has for years -

Tear it down and let someone build something new and glorious which will positively impact the area...NEW NEW NEW

Yup, nothing like a new mud pit to revitalize the neighbourhood. Great idea! *sarcasm*

Haters gonna hate...

We have our Fire Code Certificate and an operational sprinkler system throughout the entire building. You may also refer to a previous article here on Raise the Hammer that documents a court ruling by Justice Casey that states that the City did not present evidence to support its case against us.

The Pearl Company, Rebels Rock are the type of developers we need. Give me a break about this. I visited Hamilton 2 years ago and stayed at a backpackers on Victoria Ave. The host recommended The Pearl company for entertainment. I loved it so much my partner and relocated to Hamilton. We were going to stay at the hostel, but were told it was shut down. I later learned the pearl has had similar struggles. Hamilton you NEED art venues, pubs, music venues, hostels, galleries coffee shops, book stores. When I heard the hostel shut down I was almost ready to pull up stakes. Someone please help.

FYI, the hostel is alive and well in an even better location. The good guys win the odd one, even in Hamilton.

This article titled "Here's the school they didn't tear down" by Paul Wilson on the CBC Hamilton website focuses on the condo development at the former Dundas District High School but also makes passing reference to Sanford Avenue School and Delta Secondary School: http://www.cbc.ca/hamilton/talk/story/20...

Wouldn't it be awful if all this were true? 

As one Trustee put it, " I'm getting a little tired of these handshake deals."
The process wasn't just neglected it was sabotaged!  
Ample opportunity to make it right and no one has stepped up. Not the city, school board nor the Ministry of education.

We come from a code red neighborhood so no one cares to hear our cry!

We won't just sit back and watch while people play politics with our heritage be it Sanford or in the gore , shaking hands and selling the public out at every turn. 

Covering for one another as you've done so many times before.#Shame on everyone of you who continue with your lies and deceit. 

What are you hiding, what are you not telling your people?

 'Just drop it.'

 What is that all about? 

We have given you the opportunity to rectify it and you so arrogantly continue on your course. 

This will be your undoing. This will be your watergate.
This time you are selling out the children. The poorest children in the entire city. 

I hope you are ill with regret and guilt. You deserve it after putting this community in such a state. 

Hundreds of hours by a team of people uncovering the multifaceted layers of bulls$@t that is your governing, stacked neatly in a pile of data you assumed we would not look through or perhaps you simply underestimate the strength of the resolve and the intelligence in this city.

 Or was it just because of our geographic location and #proximity which is more than evident that it is easily sacrificed for a few quick bucks.

We approached you time after time in good faith often with no response at all. We approached you again and you refused to engage unless forced to by immense pressures.

You create your own scandals, very handily I might add. 

For those of you who are along for the ride, it is time to get off and stand up for the people of your city and for our process. 

After all it was designed to protect us from this very thing.

Come forward now and show us that your role was not as a willing participant.

This is not acceptable in a Democratic government.

Know this, if you knock these buildings down before the process is reviewed it will be the biggest shame of your career!  Stealing from the poorest children in the entire city. 

Claiming Sanford contaminated by airborne asbestos and lead and more. We know the walls are not rusting, as you said they were Mr Engineer at Wever school meeting.

Again, shame on you. Disgusting and Vile.

And you think we believe you have our interests in mind for a casino?
Will you vote YES to a casino, stick it in our core and then say, we wanted it in Flamborough but we didn't realize they can put it anywhere. You play stupid with our money.

Spending our money on a stadium that actually gives us less than what we otherwise had. No one can trust you. Not one of you. You cannot say you didn't know, you can say only that you did not care enough to know.  It's all in writing every piece.

Your RFP's, contracts and handshake deals with 'trusted' friends are sad to say the least.

We can't even have a snow crew that removes snow in this city. 

Our road staff have become a mirror of yourselves.

Heritage committee that hasn't designated 1 building and Transparency committee with no public agenda and hasn't accomplished anything around a lobby registry since starting in 2007.

Your zoning and planning punish good people who believe in the dream and the possibility of being part of the solution. A dream that you sell and then rip out of our hands. 

Take them to court and flog them publicly so that everyone will see that we are not open for business!
Make exception for the rich and difficulties for the poor.

Your passion for parking is disgusting and holds us back as a community. 

Restaurants to stand and eat in...what are we pigs at a trough?
Who stands to eat a meal?

Your toxic waste sites that you allow to move from corner to corner and forgive time and time again.  

Handing money and grants to people who deserve less than the time of day!

Look the other way as your residents continue to struggle for breathe covered in toxic dust. Let it be accepted they are only the poor.

Making two way roads to accommodate one rather than all. Oh so convenient ward 3 roads just missed out on conversion not in on EA.

What a wonderful job you have all done this term! Big pats on your backs. Cheers all around. 
Fighting over your chair and your station in life.

 How Far up the political ladder will you go?

Think on this and realize that you cannot fool your people. We are uprising because you cause us to.
It is time. 
We the people and children of Hamilton demand better and we demand truth and transparency!
 We have told you this and you would not listen.

What if the boilers actually are working inside of Sanford Avenue School?

Wow...stream of consciousness

Now THAT is the best commentary of truth I've seen in a very long time.

So PanAm has cost us Sanford! A perfectly beautiful structure. See recommendations
Under our area of the city. We didnt just loose seats, parking and future funds we lost Sanford School home
To 700-900 children after school programs.
Councillors afraid to link it to PanAm maybe?
I'll do it for you.
http://www.hamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/36E454FA-454E-49E5-B9F9-D914FF883F2B/0/OutdoorRecreationStudy.pdf
Let's talk process, consultations!

This article titled "White Star proposes eight-storey building for King and Sanford" by Denise Davy was posted on CBC Hamilton today: http://www.cbc.ca/hamilton/news/story/20...

Mr. Rakovac, the owner of White Star, cites the expansion of GO service and the possibility of LRT in Hamilton as catalysts for his condo proposal at King and Sanford. Given that Sanford Avenue School is only a block or two north of the site of the proposed White Star project, one could make the case that expanded GO service and possible LRT are also catalysts to adapt the school for residential use.

Comment edited by RenaissanceWatcher on 2013-01-25 08:26:30

They are rentals not condos. And why anyone would move all the way from Toronto to rent(nowhere near GO) and commute all the way back to Toronto is beyond me.

“A key factor for us is the GO station, because it will push up the demand. You hear of people wanting to move here from Toronto but they don’t want to fight the traffic. When the GO station goes in, it will change all that,” said Rakovac"

How quickly have we forgotten that highly praised rebuild of the lister block?The owners of that building deliberatly created eyesore in the heart of our city ,played the weak mayor and equally weak clr.,that rebuild cost us millions and look what we got-another empty shell.Do we want a replay of that highly praised scam?wake up Ward 3 and knock it down.

Clearly people who call a beautiful old building "relic", "eyesore", "wreck" ... don't have an appreciation for such beauty, quality, history, and

Curious whether they even live downtown.

If the city got off its butt and selected tenants for the Lister from the applicants, it would help!

Truth time: Those who control the construction industry in Hamilton just don't have the respect for heritage nor the skills for adaptive reuse of historical buildings.

Time for Hamilton's 'Charbonneau' inquiry?

Chris Angel,
Are you aware that with all that asbestos, lead etc that neither the city of the schoolboard made the Ministry of Environment aware of the Sanford demolition. I have an email from the Ward Councillor assuring me that they will work closely with the Ministry of Environment as they have with past demolitions and that I could rest assured.
Only days before the demolition began I contacted the Ministey of Environment's officer Joe Magigic who had no information that any demolition was taking place. I then contacted the Ministry of labour to make them aware of the hazardous materials that demolition workers may be exposed to.
I had quite a bit of back and forth with Joe Magegic who sympathized with my concern as he stated to me that he was having great difficulty gaining access to information on the Sanford school demolition.
Finally he opened the file both labour and Enviro ministry became involved but guess who had to make it happen?
Rest assured it was not the Ward Councillor, the chief building officer, the HWDSB or the firm that was hired to demolish the school. It was me. A resident not living in the immediate neighborhood but one who still gives a damn about fairness! Now with that being said and all the materials you claim are inside do you really feel the HWDSB is trying to do the right thing, for the children, neighbors etc?

I went to that school in the early 80's when it was HCI grade 13. It was used years later as an elementary school as well. Lead and asbestos has been known to be a health and safety hazard for many years before that yet the school board continued to operate that school. They must have known there was asbestos and lead contaminates there yet never warned the students at the time. Looks to me like they have set themselves up for a lawsuit on behalf of all former students who attended those schools from any time after the date that the school board knew there was a problem there. I can not believe that the problem was only identified and used as an excuse to tear it down.

I'm not here to give an informed opinion of it being sold, tore down, or what not, but I went to this school a few early grades. I am now 22, but I do remember it having a lot of problems. Ceilings leaking, stair ways being blocked off, a lot of pluming problems, the floors were worn out and warped, the basement looked like it was going to caved in. Those are just a few of the major things I can remember. But a lot of great memories there. I also went to Tweedsmuir and that place had full stairwells and hallways caved in and blocked off WHILE we were still going there.. wow. But again, great memories.