Raise the Hammer

Amazing that something being done in cities all over the world, including here in Canada, is at the OMB when Hamilton tries to do it. I'm sure those councillors and Chamber of Commerce types who oppose this idea are the first to gaze longingly on the quality of life in many TO or Vancouver neighbourhoods...several of which have 30km speed limits, and have for years. We want the good life without making the necessary choices to get there.

At one point we thought we had a settlement, but on Decision Day, the councillors went in camera to discuss the matter, and then rejected it.

Raise your hand if you're surprised.

Not to be a naysayer but ... reducing speed limits will have zero effect unless it is enforced. While i don't drive ( on a regular basis ) the only place i see speed limits enforced regularly is on the eastern stretch of Burlington, and Northbound at Wellington south of main. These are obviously revenue generating locations. Unless the focus of enforcement is changed to pedestrian safety from revenue generation, the only people who will benefit from lower speed limits will be sign makers

I hear ya, but at the same time that's not a reason to not proceed with safety improvements. And it's not entirely fair to assume that 100% of drivers just bomb around ignoring speed limits...10k over seems to be acceptable, so I'm confident that several folks will do 40k in these zones, which is far safer than 60. I know when I enter a 30 or 40km zone I slow down....the possibility of enforcement is usually enough for most motorists to obey the law.

Comment edited by jason on 2012-05-07 12:32:06

Here's a simple solution, Shawn: Convert John St N to two way traffic flow north of the tracks.
James being two way traffic with stop lights at Ferrie & Picton keeps vehicles to a minimum speed, though the stop lights are pedestrian-prompted. That should certainly change.

So I'm not convinced a 30km/h speed zone for our treasured neighbourhood would result in a pedestrian-friendlier environment, I can guarantee a two way John St with proper stop lights would.

Perhaps the NEN is barking up the wrong tree?
Though Hamilton was known as The Ambitious City many decades ago, it's seems we are more the "Afraid-to-be Ambitious City" now.

"...We want the good life without making the necessary choices to get there..."

That statement rings so true with this city.

I've been busted for speeding three times in my life... mea culpa, of course.

In every case, they were streets that have been designed as highways but still sport urban speed-limits - westbound on Cootes Drive (there's a short stretch that's after all the intersections and crossings but before the speed limit rises), westbound on Burlington, and southbound on Longwood S.

I don't mind getting busted, I just wish we saw the police enforcing the rules with this vigor in the places where people actually live. Not one of those streets has any homes nearby (although teens are often commuting along Longwood).

In general, the mottos of Hamilton are almost a hilarious mockery of the city itself - The Steeltown with its ever-shrinking steel industry, the Best Place to Raise a Child while closing schools and avoiding making the streets actually friendly for children, the Ambitious City whose ambition is to become Mississauga's Mississauga. "Together Aspire - Together Achieve" while we seem to constantly undermine our agreed-upon aspirations with constant infighting.

Over yonder across the bay...

cms.burlington.ca/AssetFactory.aspx?did=19994

Speed Limits will be reviewed using the Transportation Association of Canada’s (TAC) Speed Limit Guidelines, calculation sheet attached. These guidelines will help determine if a speed limit change is warranted and what the new speed should be for the subject roadway. The resulting speed limit will typically fall within the recommended speed limits outlined in Table 1:

Major Arterials = 60
Minor & Multi-Purpose Arterials = 50 or 60
Collectors = 40, 50 or 60
Locals = 40 or 50

All rural sections have an upset maximum speed limit of 80 km/h.The resulting speed limit may be set below the recommended speed limit when constrained by the physical characteristics of the road, such as the design speed

required for heightened safety in sensitive areas such as school and playground areas.

Required temporarily for safety in a construction zone

The 85"‘ percentile speeds are significantly lower than the recommended speed, or

There is a significantly higher than normal frequency of, orseverity of, collisions attributable to excessive speedsSpeed limits will be set between 40 km/h and 80 km/h in increments of 10 km/h.

The minimum length of a speed zone should be 500m for urban sections and 1km for rural sections. For roadway passing through school frontage the following shall apply:

Roadways with less than 3000 vehicles per day, a speed limit of 40 km/h should be applied to these areas at all times of theday.

Arterial roadways and roadways with traffic volumes over 3000 vehicles per day should be considered for a part-time reduced speed zone (flashing 40 km/h zone).

The 40 km/h speed limit would apply to the portion of roadway which is directly fronting the school property andincludes a section 150 metres in either direction beyond the edge of the land designated as being for school use.

The point beyond 150 metres from the edge of the school shall revert back to the speed limit that governed prior toentering the school zone. The reverted speed limit should notbe more than 60 km/h. The 40 km/h zone may be extended if it results in an adjacent speed limit that is too short to adequately enforce. Under the Highway Traffic Act R.S.0. 1990, C.H. 8, roads that do nothave a speed limit posted are limited as per the following:

Urban speed limit — 50 km/hr unless othenrvise posted
Rural speed limit — 80 km/hr unless otherwise posted

Both The City and NEN agree with you on those suggestions. Macnab also to be converted to 2 way. James to have crossing enhacements, with special consideration to James/Strachan and Bay/Strachan where people are having trouble crossing. Bay Street N is also to have calming measures. The Neighbourhood itself to rely on calming measures and education rather than enforcement. A big component was to label the whole thing as "child and family friendly". Our research was done over 6 years ago but included the slow traffic movement in Europe and building child-friendly communities as part of the liveable cities movement.
http://www.livablecities.org/articles/child-friendly-communities

The major difference between NEN and the City was on the speed of Burlington and James and labeling our neighbourhood 'child friendly'.

You can't design a street as a multi-lane 60 km/h thoroughfare and expect drivers to go at 30 just because of a posted sign.

Indeed. That stretch of Cootes Blvd. which Pxtl notes is a perfect example: a few hundred meters of four-lane, limted-access divided highway with a 50km/h limit. It takes extraordinary attention to stay under the limit there because it feels safe to go much faster.

Honestly, I'm 1000% against naming any neighbourhood as a "child and family friendly" area.
It's like putting a giant sign saying 'Downtown Hamilton' at a particular street like that is where the downtown begins and ends.

Wrong!

The North End, like Downtown, is organic. They grow as time passes. People come, people go. Children are born, and they leave.

To label the entire north end as a "child and family friendly" area limits the posibility of attracting those who do not want to live in such a neighbourhood, but who love the gorgeous vistas & amenities us Northenders appreciate so much.

Sorry Sheri & Shawn, as a Northender myself I cannot support your efforts to label the north end as such. Please stick to lobbying the city for a two way John St with traffic calming measures (bike lanes, speed humps, etc).

It seems the NEN has a hidden agenda disguised by legitimate urbanist activism. Just in my opinion of course.

I said something to which some people object here in my comment about fighting to keep under 50km/h on Cootes.

I would love to know what it was as I just can't imagine. I feel like I'm missing something - a different perspective on traffic management, maybe. Anyone care to speak up?

Comment edited by moylek on 2012-05-08 08:03:05

I'll take a stab at it.

• There are partitions between the bike/walking paths and the flow of traffic

• It's an important artery connecting downtown Dundas and the links with highway 6, Waterdown, and the edges of Dundas

• It's not an urban area by any stretch (once you pass the university there's no homes until beyond Olympic

• There's no need for traffic calming along here (can't think of any time I've seen a collision in this area)

In 2011, it was named the second best place in Canada to raise kids.

http://cms.burlington.ca/Page7403.aspx

I'll take a stab at it.

I see. I was invoking the indiscriminate ire of the "don't slow me down" crowd, I guess. Though I was not actually arguing for traffic calming, merely noting that when the roads are wide open, a speed limit will only be observed with extraordinary measures (in the case of Cootes: extra signs, flashing speed lights, lots of enforcement).

I really hate that stretch of Cootes: it's neither fish nor fowl. It's a highway with a speed limit lower than than Main Street West.

The limit should either be raised or the stretch between Main West and the overhead bridge should be redesigned so that is not highway anymore.

I think the point here is that any neighbourhood that is safe for families with young children is going to be safe for everyone. It's the 8-80 principle. Make streets safe for an 8 year old and an 80 year old, and everyone in between benefits. It doesn't mean that those without kids aren't allowed in. It's simply an easy way to gauge the safety and livability of a neighbourhood.

Just came across this video and this seemed like a good place to share it.

Australian TV commercial; 1997; "This was the first commercial to tackle the issue of low-level speeding and to show the extraordinary difference that driving just 10 km/h less can have on a pedestrian.

SFW but heads up if you're sensitive; mildly brutal in a way that gets the message across.

Youtube

The speed limit was 40k at one point. I don't remember if that was before or after the student was killed, but it has since been raised to 50 for the reason moylek states above.

Of course it's still a silly compromise. It should either be raised again to 60, or redesigned. Preferably the latter.

I only do the posted limit along this stretch - can't speak for other drivers though. If they choose to speed, I can't do anything about it.

I think that the stoplight on Cootes but before the overpass (when heading into Dundas) needs to be pulled out. They should either put in a pedestrian bridge there or force pedestrians to cross at the overpass leading into the parking lots on the West side of Cootes. That, or have them go up to Main and cross there.

The girl who was hit and killed by the dump truck was equally to blame for jaywalking there - she had headphones on as well and (apparently) couldn't hear the oncoming traffic - and the overreaction was to lower the speeds, put in a light that's not timed to traffic and is used intermittently. I still see people jaywalking there anyway - if there's no traffic, why wait is their motto I guess.

The reason this is before the OMB is because the notion of reducing the speed limit to 30 is ridiculous. Your problem is not with the speed limit but with the enforcement of that limit. 50 kph is pretty much a universal limit in urban centres with some reductions to 40 in selected areas like school zones. Trying to lower the limit to 30 in such a large area is plain silly. The city is doing the right thing in not caving in to a small radical vocal neighbourhood association. The reason this is wasting the time and resources of our system is because the association is out to lunch and has lost all touch with reality. You have the right to take your ridiculous notion to the OMB which is more than you deserve.

What is the point, you want to give speeding tickets to mobility scooters?

Here's a new benchmark. And for variety's sake, it's not Oregon or the Netherlands.

http://m.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/may/09/wales-gets-tough-green-travel?cat=politics&type=article

This is an incredible article.

... many councils show little enthusiasm for such projects, and sometimes downright hostility. The Welsh administration hopes the active travel (Wales) bill, if passed, will sweep aside such stagnation and deliver a change to the nation's entire transport culture.

I'm speechless. Very inspiring. Their quality of life is only going to get better as time passes. Provided this isn't just talk and is actually applied. This idea needs to spread; status quo is proving very hard to break in some places.

Exactly. I like the 8-80 principle. Like you said, the "child friendly" label is a benchmark to liveability and safety.

Breeze, if you really are a North Ender, as I am, you would know that an overwhelmingly 90%-plus North Enders voted for 30k, way back in 2007 or 08. As well, you would know that two City-hired experts, Dan Burden and Dr. Catherine O'Brien, wrote letters in support of a blanket 30k in the North End.

Finally, you would know that the City agreed in the past to 30k, save for James and Burlington Sts; the two aforementioned experts, and NEN, and close to 100% of those who live on James and Burlington Sts wanted James and Burlington Sts to have a 30k speed as well. The City balked and balked about James and Burlington, and NEN went to the OMB. If you're really a North Ender, where have you been since January 2006 when the North End Traffic Study began and North Enders overwhelmingly agreed to a blanket 30k?

ps...The City informed all residents of the North End during the traffic study that speed bumps/humps would definitely not be used in the NE; in fact, they are rarely, if ever, used anymore for traffic calming. Breeze, no disrespect, but the time to say nay to 30k in the North End was many, many moons ago and I'm sorry to say you completely missed the slow-moving traffic study when it was in motion. Mind you, you would have been one of a very small minority who was not in favour of a blanket 30k; at the same time, had you been involved and voiced your disagreement you might not be spewing this nonsense at this stage of the game.

The North End will be Canada's first Child and Family Friendly Neighbourhood with, as you say, "gorgeous vistas & amenities us Northenders appreciate so much."
Now, we just have to wait on the OMB report to see if James and Burlington will be 30k too.

...but this was a 2-way street? Walkability, and so forth..?

When a bad thing happens, people are responsible. Sure, this area was an assumed place for pedestrians to jaywalk, but that doesn't make it any less one person's responsibility over another's.

Like I said - why not just use the pre-existing pedestrian paths that existed prior?

Can anyone actually get pasta 30 between stop signs and stoplights