Raise the Hammer

Funny, I would argue that you are driving your 'evidence-based' argument on a narrow view of the utility and potential for nuisance of hens and disregarding their welfare, and therefore to you any disagreement with the idea is anti-evidence.

I propose that everyone be allowed to keep a pet monkey - people love monkeys! We can mitigate the harm by only allowing little monkeys, keeping them indoors and requiring licenses. Anyone disagreeing with this policy is anti-evidence.

Although this may not be Red Hill Valley, AEGD, new highways ripping through our escarpment or across the province to Niagara, Councillor's not supporting two Councillors who would solely be affected by this pilot, is short-sided and looks very bad on council in my opinion.

I think they know that this isn't going to go away. I mean even if they kept the pilot only to those who currently have hens pre-new bi-law.

no, some were concerned about the enforcement costs, which are involved with welfare. People don't think about animal welfare until they see pictures of suffering animals and then animal control is called in. That's a cost that many don't want to take on.

As for monkeys, don't be condescending. I don't mean to be cute, I'm actually very serious. Do all monkeys carry this herpes virus? Are they all violent? Let's say there is a monkey that is neither - would you be happy to have them as pets? According to your view of utility and nuisance, that's all you need - go get your monkey! I would argue that this is fundamentally ignorant of a quality of animal welfare we somehow both value deeply for pets yet totally disregard for livestock.

Am I doing that? Let's see: if there was a monkey without potential for violence and without this convenient disease, would you support it as a pet? Where in your argument have you considered the wellbeing of the animals apart from their utility and nuisance potential?

I don't understand why you support factory farming of chickens.

What we really need here is a team of councillors whose first priority is to work together. It seems the current bunch have the following priorities:

To talk the loudest To not get voted out To always be right even when they aren't To disagree with everyone who ever made them mad ...etc

I feel like their dream situation is for a decision to have 15 possible outcomes so that each and every one of them can vote for a different one.

I'm still of the opinion that the urban chickens debate was a bit of bikeshedding, but it still nicely drew the lines on which councillors were willing to listen to evidence, willing to try new things, willing to defer to the councillors for wards that would be most directly effected by a decision... and which councillors were not.

another one not brave enough to argue the point.

Which point? The monkey one?

Yes, why would we? You know it is really horrible to see all those animals suffer, due to factory farming yet these is how things are done, the corporate way.

Go Figure!

I'm sorry guys but I'm just not getting the whole chicken thing happening here. There just seems to be so many other things in Hamilton that could use that energy. I do admire the passion, I just think this is a lower priority right now. Gonzo has your support I'm sure!

The general inclination of a free society is that people should be allowed to do what they want, as long as what they do does not harm others.

What about the welfare of the animals? This isn't as simple as you guys want it to be. What happens to unwanted chickens? Do you not think there will be any? That is naive. Do we just add chickens to the list of animals we already "put down" because they are unwanted? All so a small minority of urban progressives can feel like they're being sufficiently progressive.

Like Pasuta I'm okay with a pilot project but I think there are bigger issues to consider than some supporters of urban chickens want to admit.

At least a few here see the animal welfare issue which not only is troubling, it has a bad record in Hamilton and will be expensive or drawing on funds that are already too low to deal with current animal welfare issues. i think people need to clean up their act city wide when it comes to animals before considering allowing another species to be kept in the city. You not only have to look at studies but also the actual environment you are putting them in and I do not see that done all I here is regulations will take care of any problems. You know what? they don't. And further they will never be sufifcent for those who will misues this opportunity and then the rest have to pick up afterwards. Not me thanks.

Wow! A situation of grave importance to our city has arisen.Oh no, its not the backyard chicken thing,its more of another misdirection and an opportunity to get another case of selective amnesia about the real issues while they play at pat the monkey and choke the chicken .What a fowl bunch. MerryXmas to all