Raise the Hammer

Does anyone know if the same track issues at West Harbour GO apply to the Confederation GO station?

Most likely, yes. CN owns that line and the bottleneck is probably between Aldershot and West Harbour, which would affect all points east.

I would LOVE to see A-Line BRT developed in Phase 1 that goes to Mohawk College, then over to Limeridge Mall. This airport idea is a head-scratcher to me. Limeridge Mall is one of the biggest drivers of transit on the Mountain, and with some park and ride facilities developed could be very useful for commuters. To make the A-line really work well and be an attractive option for Mountain residents, we need to develop a location for bus-only lanes up/down the escarpment.

Agreed, or to expand on the bus terminal at Mohawk College to be expanded and include BRT/LRT hub from here.

As well, the Claremont could easily be adapted to provide up/down access on one side, and the other to be 2-way traffic like at the West 5th and Garth/Beckett accesses.

One of the 2010 plan's recommendations was a bus lane on the mountain... but not a big beast like was built downtown, but a very specific bus-lane on Mall Road just to get buses into and out of the lime ridgemall bus terminal as quickly as possible. That would definitely be nice.

The approved 2017 budget sees Limeridge Mall getting a $2.5 million bus terminal redevelopment; so maybe part of your wish list will come true.

We should be pushing for Phase 1 to include an extension all the way to Eastgate Square. This transit hub makes much more sense as the east end terminus for Phase 1. The Centennial Neighbourhood is a high density neighbourhood - and there are many residents here who depend on transit to move around the city. Full disclosure - I also live in that neighbourhood - so I definitely want LRT right to Eastgate for that reason too!!

Can anyone point me in the direction of some evidence to support this statement 'due to difficult negotiations with CN, Metrolinx is unlikely to be able to provide all-day train service to the West Harbour Station in time for an LRT launch in 2024. For now it's just going to be rush-hour service. Meanwhile, Metrolinx will be able to provide all-day train service to the Hunter GO Station'?

I've been unable to find any other information about this.

Comment edited by molybdenum on 2017-01-12 09:36:48

I am glad the spur line on James N is getting a rethink. It didn't make sense. I hope the East-West LRT gets extended to Stoney Creek as originally planned. I agree with Ryan that the #20 A LINE can serve the two GO stations and develop ridership for a possible A line LRT in the future.

My proposal: Express bus from Confederation Park GO station to Aldershot station, add a bus bypass shoulder to the Red Hill and the Linc (widening is estimated at $100M) and bus lanes on the parclo ramps.

Then make this BRT:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1...

The downside, of course, is that parclo ramps aren't exactly high-density locations, but they're still a good place for transferring to the north/south buses servicing the mountain.

Comment edited by Pxtl on 2017-01-12 09:58:15

I really like this. Hits several high density nodes, and several N/S bus routes on the Mountain. I know the city continues to flog this airport dream from the 60's, but Confederation GO, Eastgate, Queenston Circle, Meadowlands East, Limeridge, Meadowlands and the employment district out on Wilson in Ancaster are all have much higher transit potential than the plazas of Upper James and empty airport.

To be fair, the component west of the Meadowlands may not be realistic since that part is regular mixed-traffic roads that are often quite congested.

I thought there was not sufficient track capacity at the Hunter Street station to accommodate all-day GO? When did this change?

Also, there is ongoing construction of new track at the rail bridges near the waterfront trail ... I thought this was supposed to provide the extra track capacity for James N.

I assume they're hedging their bets. CN and CP own the two respective tracks, so building the JN GO station seems like it was really about creating a bidding war between them for which station will serve the bulk of Hamilton traffic. The JN GO is Ontario's preferred option I think because that can continue service East, but it sounds like they'll take what they can get.

That said, there was a recent scandal in the news about how much the Ontario gov't overpays CN for track work, so I imagine there's pressure to find savings in their dealings with these guys.

CN still owns the track that the James Street Station uses. If they want to move freight and make money at the expense of GO transit so be it, its their track. Many of the changes needed for GO service in the corridor requires a huge amount of new infrastructure to be built, which I bet CN wants the province to entirely pay for and the GO Trains will still play second fiddle to CN freight trains! Which is probably why the negotiations between Metrolinx are progressing so slowly. The main Class 1 railways in North America really still want nothing to do with passenger service. Historically speaking, the railway passenger systems as a whole never made money in North America, it was the baggage and mail service attached to each passenger train that actually made the majority of the money. Yes, some individual lines made money but the networks as whole did not make money by selling passenger tickets. When the railways lost the mail and baggage services to trucks and highways in the 50's, 60's and early 70's, so went the last of most the Class 1 railway's passenger services.

Do you know for a fact that they will own the new track being built parallel to the old track? I know that GO built its own new track near Aldershot station so its capacity could be increased.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qd8hy032...

Must admit - my head hurts now. Rapid transit, I thought, was suppose to be about moving people via a regional public transit system. The airport to me, doesn't fall within "public transit". An "express" bus service also doesn't fit the criteria for funding for the very reasons the province has stated they won't give us $ for a bus barn. An express bus service is HSR. With every piece of info coming out, it seems decisions are in fact being made for political reasons. Guess we'll all just have to wait a few weeks for the announcement to see,

My bet's on Ancaster - GO bus - perhaps with dedicated lane on 403. Anything else delays overall project due to Environmental Assessments and/or costs more than the $200M for the A line spur.

There'll never be a dedicated 403 lane from Hamilton to anywhere west of the city - it's mainly 2 lanes each direction and would require either widening a shoulder to drive on like on the 403 in Mississauga or adding another lane to make it all 3 or 4 lanes. I could see from Ancaster to Burlington getting a widened, paved shoulder though since there's enough space for that I think.

One thing we could do easily is shoulder bus lanes on the Linc, Red Hill and 403 west of the Linc. East of Aberdeen wouldn't work though.

With all the construction going on East of Aberdeen with the replacement of the bridge near Princess Point, I think some creative solutions could be found - either the narrowing of the lanes (though they are, or at least "feel" pretty narrow as you go under the ramps) to extend out the shoulders, or even something like realigning the lane to enable one side to be wider than the other to accomodate it. Or, we could make it work up to Aberdeen, merge into normal traffic, then start again after the Main East onramp.

Couldn't this imaginary Ancaster GO bus simply exit the 403 highway at this point (the narrowing)? Come into town, have a stop/connectivity to the LRT, and re-enter the highway further down where it's wider?

Who said it's from Ancaster? I am envisioning GO linking London to Toronto, via Woodstock, Brantford, and Hamilton. Linking regions near one another with express service between makes more sense, but having it dipsy-doodle through isn't express. Stops need to be in the route, not near it. My $0.02.

Relevant to CN negotiations:

http://sirf-online.org/2016/12/12/canadi...

wow!

Predicted October 26 in Comment 120355:

"... The James St spur will not be built."

And I know it was the cost. "Capital expense" according to Ryan. Hmmm. You seemed to overlook that before.

Funny thing is that now Ryan is framing this like he was secretly against it the whole time. " Supercrawl supported the spur right on this forum when I pointed out that it would interfere with the annual event. I wonder what they think now? I'll bet they'll also be excited for the "cost-effective alternative." This thing is turning into the biggest joke of all time.

Comment edited by JimC on 2017-01-12 19:46:50

You mean like how the Queen Streetcar interferes with Beaches Jazz in Toronto?

During Supercrawl they'll just shut down the A-line north of James, and extended the 2, 3 & 4 buses to a side street-like they do already.

And I know it was the cost.

If you know this, what else do you know? Please share.

I think everyone was scratching their head over the spur line piece and knew it'd be the first to go should any sort of hiccup arise. Hopefully a better use of the money for that, and with less headaches will be implemented. Remember, this is a "living document" if you will as we're not even in the RFP stage yet.

"Meanwhile, Metrolinx will be able to provide all-day train service to the Hunter GO Station, which is going to be connected to the east-west B-Line LRT by a higher-order pedestrian route along Hughson Street."

How?

The Hunter Street Tunnel to the west of the GO Centre is a single track tunnel. That limits the number of trains that can pass through it. It's also CP Rail's only access to the Niagara Peninsula and New York State.

Is Metrolinx going to pay to have the tunnel rebuilt?

I want to see station density stats and current transit ridership from the Mountain before accepting that an incredibly long run to Mount Hope should be our next priority. A simple eye test would lead most people to believe that there is far more ridership potential at Limeridge Mall and either of the Meadowlands - Ancaster, Stoney Creek - as a terminus.
Mohawk Road and Fennell Ave between West 5th and Upper Wentworth are high density streets.

Upper James is parking lots and 1 storey plazas with no residential.

And I'm strongly of the opinion that any of the aforementioned spots on the Mountain from Stoney Creek to Ancaster deserve and need rapid transit long before Mount Hope does.

I agree. The only somewhat densely populated area is around Mohawk Rd and Upper James. South of that is all car dealerships. And I've never understood why anyone would take a bus to the airport. You're going to drag all of your luggage / carry on etc on to a bus? Maybe some people would but I doubt enough to make it worth setting up an express bus system. Likely this is the same problem the Union-Pearson link has. Parking is cheap and way more convenient.

Any physically segregated Bus Rapid Transit right of way or a Bus Only Lane on a 400 series highway or the Lincoln Alexander Parkway is a bad idea when you don't have a core Busway for this highway right of way to connect too. Rapid Transit highway right of ways alone unconnected to any core rapid transit system all by them selves, are usually very bad generators of passenger numbers.

Ottawa's Bus only lanes along the 417 leading to Kanata in the west and Orleans in the east work because they connect to a significant existing rapid transit system. Alone they would not generate anywhere near the numbers they do. Plus consider this, currently there is 3km of bus Transitway under construction parallel to the bus only lanes leading to Kanata on Hwy. #417 (from Bayshore Station west to the new DND HQ site at the former Nortel Campus on Moodie Dr.). So O.C Transpo even then prefers having there own segregated and somewhat grade separated private busway than use highway bus only lanes.

Union Pearson express trains have luggage storage racks and food service. Not to mention the trip from Union to Pearson can take along time by car or taxi, a lot longer than 23-25 minutes anyway.

All that being said if, and its a big if, you can have a really fast and efficient trip to the Airport, with an easy transfer to the terminal that is efficient, a bus can make a good airport feeder service, even if you have to bring luggage. In Ottawa the Transitway network has a one of the 90 series buses (the #97) which goes by Transitway in a very quick express route then, uses a off-ramp from the Transitway to directly access the Airport Parkway via a very short trip along Hunt Club Dr. to the short on-ramp. As long the traffic is not too bad on the Hunt Club or the Parkway itself the trip can be blazingly fast and efficient. However, if the traffic on Hunt Club is heavy, even that short a trip, about 120 metres from the ramps off the Transitway to the Hunt Club on-ramps for the Airport Parkway, can slow everything down and just that short section can add 5-7 minutes to the entire trip. Hunt Club Drive, which is a major east-west road in southern Ottawa, is usually very busy in both directions at peak periods especially in the afternoon. Traffic is so heavy during the peak hours, the city is considering bus only lanes on the section of Hunt Club from Riverside drive east past the Transitway, all the way to Bank Street or Albion Road. About 2.5 km. due to the car traffic slowing all the buses in both directions trying access the Transitway.

This is a little off topic, but not totally. Was talking with a neighbour. They're looking for a 4th vehicle. Her son just started at Mohawk College, Fennell Campus. Needs 2 hours lead time to get to a class via public transit from our area - urban medium to high density Stoney Creek. I'm pro LRT, but would be vehemently opposed to the enhancements being tossed around on the ALine ahead of improvements for other areas in this predicament.

I agree. Virtually anywhere in the city could use BRT before Mount Hope.
I would prefer to leave the current A Line Express as is. Then use this extra money to build the T-Line, and a transit-only escarpment crossing between Limeridge/Mohawk College and Downtown.

iirc there was a plan to make James Mountain Road transit-only, since it gets the least use of any mountain access and is pretty redundant with the Jolley and Beckett.

Looks like we find out tomorrow morning!

https://news.ontario.ca/mto/en/2017/02/m...