Raise the Hammer

This will be the second time this line will be reversed.
The first time they used it as an excuse to shut down Oakville refinery and lay almost everyone off.

The Feds should of steped up to Hamilton a LONGTIME ago cleaning up the Randle Reef and Hamilton Air Port show use the money to clean them up and then we will think about it .. Nottttt!

Mulcair is just playing regionalism. Ontarians are envious of the easy economic boom Albertans have thanks to their herculean achievement of happening to be located over the most valuable resource of our time. So he's playing to that envy - first with his Dutch Disease (the jury's still out on that one - Canada's leading economists say no, but international economists say yes) and now figuring if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Alberta is never going to adopt a moderate, responsible resource policy so we may as well get our cut. Regionalism launched two of Canada's most successful political parties (the Refo...Conservatives, and the PQ) so it's no surprise he's trying to do it in Ontario.

Either way, there's too much money on their side... one way or another that oil is coming out of Alberta, it's only a matter of where. Maybe if the oil industry hadn't completely destroyed their own reputation with so many spills and catastrophes, the public might be more interested in the potential income instead of the liability? Because as it stands, every time I hear politicians talking about the dollar signs of these things, my first thought is always "still less than the clean-up cost if something goes wrong, and the company will somehow squirm out of paying for it and leave it in the taxpayer's lap".

I hate big-oil, oilsands, and pipelines. Do nothing but create spills and ruin the environment. Much better to harpoon whales, in an environmentally friendly way of course, for our heating and lighting fuel. Pack the oil in 100 gallon wooden casks and cart them around by horse drawn wagon like the good old days. Any oil spilled will be small amounts and environmentally benign.

Wait a minute - this oil pipeline work does not require an environmental assessment but converting a one way street to two way does?

That does seem strange seancb without a doubt.

Just got back from General Issues - the presentations (all against) raised a lot more questions than they answered, both about the pipeline and possible responses, leaving staff more homework. I was honestly impressed by the way council responded - concerned, if seemingly a bit powerless, though it's still pretty unclear what will come of all this. Will post more later when I've had time to collect my thoughts and finish my workday.

Also, it occurs to me that I forgot to include information about Binbrook's oil spill in my article, around a decade ago from Line 10, which was brought up in Council today...a frightening reminder of how close to home this kind of thing has occurred before.

Thanks Unindustrial, very interesting article and discussion. Had worked for a short time in Fort McMurray way back when and it's a very important environmental issue without a doubt.

A shame (and not to divert attention from an important issue), that this extremely sensitive topic has 8 comments and the stadium is breaking records with over 200. Also, that highway on our escarpment is coming up again too. It's like the stadium is a smokescreen to divert us from much more environmentally important issues at hand.

Thanks for the council update Undustrial. Good to know council's standpoint.

If we can't stop this from happening, we need higher level of governments to protect us and at least have some solid agreement that:

1. Government help us clean up existing issues such as Binbrook (including airport run-offs) and Randle Reef first
2. Ensure that if a line breaks, it's cleaned up at THEIR cost and within a very short timeframe. Perhaps a valve placed often enough that if they don't comply to our cleanup standards in a timely manner, the valve get's turned off until such a time as we feel the requirements have been met. Not sure how turning a valve off would affect pressure, but perhaps many valves could be turned down more and more down the line until the final shutoff at the end to make the shutting down process less abrupt.

We need ways to protect us from bureaucracy, bankruptcy protection, etc. I don't pretend to know a great deal how pipelines and what not work, but if they are going through water bodies there must be multiple shut-off valves including before/after they enter the water,or any place that would create immediate and large devastation of wildlife if a spill couldn't otherwise be be controlled without these protective precautions in place.

I'd rather a pipeline across land than tankers going across oceans that when stuff happens, it's just a big out of control mess.

Ensure there are acceptable measures in place to limit destruction, and ensure there is a watchdog that is constantly checking the quality of valves or connection points that are prone to corrosion or breakage. Put road type systems like man/hand holes every so often so there aren't miles and miles of buried pipes that can't easily be accessed to check for quality. Maybe this is already the standard but if not, would this help?

It's not about being NIMBYists, it's about caring for our land and all of it's creatures including us.

I don't like it and would rather be a NIMBYist and say not in my back yard, but ensure our protection and we won't be so quick to tell you to get lost.

It's like the stadium is a smokescreen to divert us from much more environmentally important issues at hand.

Realistically, the city isn't going to fight against the mid-pen unless we're expected to pay for it. More expressways in Hamilton would be good for the homebuilders, and the homebuilders have a loud voice at city hall. It might get more traffic into the airport too, which will let them have their moronic aerotropolis fantasy. They want the mid-pen.

But it isn't (by definition anyway), their wants that matter. It's ours and yes we can put together petitions and delegate and send emails, but on this one we need to give them some solutions to help us avoid the need for more highways. We need to clear up the 403, Link, Red Hill, and QEW Toronto by jobs exploding across our industrial district. Ways to utilize empty space in schools rather than close them, so people can work in their neighborhoods and lesson the need for cars or even heavy public transit use.

WE need to come up with a plan. We need the Red Hill why, so we can get to Meadowlands or Stoney Creek shopping centres, movie theatres, Leons, etc., but whey didn't we look to give folks down here what they look for up there? What are people driving to and let's give it to them closer to home. If there was a movie theatre even like Westdale in my area (Ottawa Street), and I could also work from home or at workshare offices in Delta High School or something, I'd only need a car to pick up my girls. I have groceries, farmers market, street wall shops, bowling, coffee, dinner options, a stadium, Gage Park, and everything else I could possibly need right around me.

I'd love to team up with a bunch of folks and work on a made in Hamilton for Hamilontians business that employees 1000+ peeople, is green, is product needed in our community with no desire to sell outside our community or to add trucks/utilize space on trains to export.

If we really want to avoid more highways or mass amounts of our tax dollars going to repair roads, I think it's finally time for US to all do something about it.

This is a highly creative city from innovation to creation. I don't want more highways or trains out of here. I want to stay and keep others right here. We have beautiful conservation areas and trails and waterfalls, a hopping beach strip in Hutches and Baranga's and Waterworks, and so many beautiful spaces. Our culture is exploding as well including much talked of James North.

We can go back to the stadium and be at a point where 22,500 is enough and is filled with mostly locals because London and Niagara and Missisauga and many surrounding communities have similar sized mutli-use structures in a more regionalized game and we visit other cities to watch this game but we don't need to rely on outside fans because we have adopted such a strong live, work and play base in Hamilton more in line with a walkable template and where transit is alternatively much more popular when we do need to venture from our own hoods, than cars.

Many dreams I guess but at some point the roads thing has to come to a screeching halt. I am sure if there is one thing many of us have in common on a board like this, it's that we really care about our city and the worlds future in general and that our need for cars needs to somehow become an increasing way of the past.

Comment edited by lawrence on 2012-10-18 11:03:11

I'd rather a pipeline across land than tankers going across oceans that when stuff happens, it's just a big out of control mess.

Pretty sure the Kalamazoo spill qualifies as a big, out of control mess.

Line 9 runs through the Beverly Swamp and the headwaters of Spencer Creek which runs into Cootes. The impact of a Kalamazoo-type spill in our area is unimaginable.

Comment edited by highwater on 2012-10-18 11:11:16

A shame (and not to divert attention from an important issue), that this extremely sensitive topic has 8 comments and the stadium is breaking records with over 200.

Agreed. However perhaps there is no one so fervently supportive of the pipeline reversal (and the mid pen) that there's simply no one to argue with in the comments!

So how about a popularity of ideas than opposition and bickering. :)

Thanks for that.

"The moment they do (reopen the river), I am going to be looking for the head of the EPA, DEQ , (Calhoun County) Health Department and the CEO of Enbridge to be jumping into that river and taking their grandkids with them,” she said.

“If they can prove to me that they do that, I might think about whether I think it’s safe.”

I can't begin to imagine.

Comment edited by lawrence on 2012-10-18 11:36:41

Excellent thoughts Lawrence. Hamilton is a "minor league city" in many people's minds but issues like this are "major league" and worth a lot of discussion in fullest context.

NIMBYism is perfectly reasonable when these companies have demonstrated a bad track record for both safety and for their willingness to pay for and assist in the cleanup when things go bad.

The pipelines aren't being battled on ideological grounds about global warming or big oil, they're being battled on the purely pragmatic reason that they're running through ecologically sensitive areas and this represents a risk that we do not and should not trust them to manage.

Exactly. And how do you define the backyard? I don't live near the pipeline, but I live near Cootes. Am I still a NIMBY?

Finished a more detailed report on how things went at council... http://undustrialism.com/2012/10/19/line...

As for whether this issue's getting the attention it's due, I'd say that it's getting more than I expected. It's only recently started popping up in the local news, and so far a rather small group of people have been making some large waves. These things take time to build up and filter through, and for most this is the first they're hearing about it. Also, it needs to be said, that this struggle (and this comment thread) so far has no Bob Young-style villain to really inflame opposition tensions. So far the project is proceeding very quietly in small pieces and taking care not to engage with opponents - probably wise given how things went with the Keystone XL and Northern Gateway.

If this is something you think should be an issue, then make it one. Cities are defined not just by how they respond collectively to local issues, but also broader national and international questions. If we're really a "major league" city, then we'll have something to contribute to a national discussion. Say what you want about Hamilton's meagre efforts to raise this issue so far, they've gone a lot further than activists in nearby cities have managed (K-W, GTA, etc) Doesn't that, alone, say something about Hamilton?

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