Raise the Hammer

No decision will be made until the committee has heard all appeals. This will carry over to a meeting on Dec 16th (9-noon)

Guess its easy to diss the city for poor planning, but on a positive note, it's nice to step back and see the bigger picture of vendors really wanting to be there.

@CptKirk

interesting comment from staff lawyer about having right-of-ways shared by vendors. isnt possible till the 2012 contract.

How much did RTH have to do with this motion? A great deal I would say! Have a look at the comments on this thread

Point of clarification from Brad Clark: Vendor appeals will no longer be held to a 5 minute limit. (appeals are not delegations)

How about a second market building in the old Pete&Marty's location? It has a wicked tile mosaic floor, lots of natural light and faces York St right next to the current market. I'd love two market buildings with their own feel and vibe. There is outdoor patio space on the east side of the Pete&Marty's location as well for summer lunch etc.....
I love the St Lawrence Market in TO and their multiple buildings, as well as the many buildings at the Pike Place Market in Seattle. Downtown should be accommodating as many businesses as want to be there, not turning them down.

Oh, that's right. I forgot. In Hamilton, citizens who want to see growth, business and vibrancy need to sit down and shut-up and allow the rocket scientists who have been running our city for the past 40 years to continue on with the status-quo. And why not? Look around you.... this place is a beacon of urban prosperity and a world model of excellence for everyone to learn from......

You're right. The track record among those desiring a bright future for Hamilton hasn't been very good so far. It's not easy overcoming the rich old boys club that only cares about their bank accounts.

Comment edited by jason on 2010-12-09 14:02:10

Most of the comments seem pretty supportive of the vendors who got shut out of the new market facility. I'm just curious, is this support universal? I mean, back in September everyone seemed quite excited that the criteria to decide who would make it in to the new space focused on local food, locally produced goods, etc. I for one won't miss half the vendors who weren't allocated space. Like many (I would say the majority) of the comments back in September said, the guys bringing a truck full of garbage from the Ontario Food Terminal to the "Farmer's" market won't be missed. If we can negotiate space in Jackson Square for them to stay, that's fine. But I certainly hope we're not going to be paying their way, because in my opinion we kicked them out of the (subsidized) market for a reason. I am really looking forward to the new market with it's local farmer and producer focus.

First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win.

Here's another positive from this development. We know now that any stallholder in the new farmers market is likely a local provider, and anyone selling produce just outside the farmers market is likely using the Ontario Food Terminal and you'll know to avoid and anyone selling other products (such as coffee, nuts, baked goods, etc) will get a stall.

The more vendors downtown, the better.

I started looking forward to the opening of the renovated market. Now I think it's a big fail. Based on today's online Spec, the City will be contacting Yale about the feasability of using space for additional market vendors. At least they are working on a solution. But overall, it just reflects poor planning. I almost fell off my chair when I saw Sam's Cheese wasn't approved for the new space. A big draw like Sam's should be placed right smack in the middle of the market. It drawes people into the centre of the space and they would be more likely to spend money at other vendors.

please keep in mind that some of those stalls that were on the 'rejected' list will likely win their appeal and land in the new market. I'd be shocked if the Colombian coffee and Sams Cheese are going to be out in the annex market.

I was just expecting the glut of indistinguishable Ontario Food Terminal sellers to get the boot, losing Colombian Coffee and Sam's Cheese was completely unexpected. That's why I've switched tunes on the subject, I'm sure many others feel the same way.

So was Sam's cheese incapable of filling out the application properly?

Of course the council in their wisdom didn't think of using the adjoining Hamilton City Centre that has hundreds of vacant square feet. It's like they are trying to keep the downtown as vacant as possible.

no chance Yale would allow the city to move the market out of their facility into the City Centre. It shouldn't be the city's job to bail out the owners of the city centre who've done nothing but bring in dollar stores and pawn shops since purchasing the building.

Please note some stall holders did not receive a second stand but what about the ones that did not receive any. All the vendors were promised a spot on the market, this is what is so unfair. Why do new vendors take precedence getting spots when existing vendors were promised there was space? Now we want to create space for people who were promised a spot in favour of new vendors getting their spots? Get real people many decisions were made behind closed doors and now the community is catching wind of it and the councillors and Ms. Anna Bradford do not know what to do to clean up this mess.
Put yourself in the longstanding vendors shoes...they work tirelessly to give the market its people appeal. It is these same vendors who pay the salaries of the councillors in city hall. Lets put a cooking kitchen class in the new market and let us put people who sell chocolate and lavender soaps ahead of people who truly sell what makes a market a market. Maybe the city deserves more money over the time they will spend cleaning up this farce of an appeal system. Remember the longstanding original vendors in the old market and the sacrifices they have made to give us the Hamilton Farmers Market. they didn't all start in this grandiosi new market that is being put forth. No other worker in Hamilton would have ever been treated this unfairly why should these people be treated this way. I say get your lawyers ready and fight for what is rightfully yours then take what you owe to them off the councillors salaries.
A very disappointed Hamiltonian

All the vendors were promised a spot on the market, this is what is so unfair.

This letter is a great example of why we need a better mechanism for people to properly grasp the salient facts of any given issue. (It also points up the supercharged tendency for people to shift into righteous-indignation mode. Which is fine...as long as they properly grasp the salient facts.)

What bothers me about this issue...and just about all others featured here on RTH...is that a) there's a deeply-embedded perception that nothing but mismanagement and chicanery go on at City Council, b) there's a ridiculously wide chasm between so many commenters' understanding of the issue and the actual facts, and c) most energies are spent not in arguing different stances based on a good grasp on facts, but on ratcheting up this just-mentioned righteous-indignation mode. (I'll add that it sure appears to me that few people taking the time to comment -or even in the real world, on buses, in malls, on streets- actually understand how local governance works.)

It's funny; what's called for regarding our public servants is more accountability, more transparency through better guidelines, rules and regulations. All fine and good. But I'm beginning to believe very strongly that we need to adjust the other side of this 'compact', that of the residents'.

So; until politicians 'get' that they have a critical -and moral- obligation to keep in mind who they're working for, and under what conditions, with what goals in mind, and until the citizenry 'get' that their idle, self-indulgent, uninformed prattlings serve no purpose than a variation on the modern 'entitlement' ethos, then we're in deep doodoo.

How does that quote go? "You're entitled to your own opinion. You're not entitled to your own facts.'

We really need to do more to increase the relationship of engagement between residents and their Councillors, because if we achieved this, I have no difficulties believing that the level of informed discourse would rise to unseen levels.

Comment edited by mystoneycreek on 2010-12-12 11:44:17

Andrew Potter weighs in on the situation:

http://authenticityhoax.squarespace.com/...

Mystoneycreek, I do agree with much of what you say.

On the fact-checking side, are you aware that the farmers in the market did indeed receive written confirmation, before the renovation began, in the market newsletter to vendors updating them on the planned renovation, that all vendors who either (a) chose to go into the 'temporary space' or (b) chose not to set up in the temporary space, but wanted back in the new market, would indeed get a spot in the new market? One or two vendors asked for (and received) additional written confirmation specific to themselves, but this was a piece sent to all vendors.

This was one of the most important pieces of paperwork I've seen in this whole debacle, and it does indeed confirm - in writing - that vendors were to expect a spot in the new market, before this whole "reapplication" process began.

While I'll totally agree that facts and a good grasp of the issue, I certainly think terms like "mismanagement" and "chicanery" apply here. And if the issue was simply that the new market was smaller, I wouldn't be nearly so annoyed.

What really bothers me is that the City has used virtually every mention of the issue to take pot-shots at market vendors, talking about those nasty OFT vendors, as a smokescreen for their actual plans to chase people like Julia Serna out. Had they come to us with their hats in their hands saying 'sorry, we couldn't help it', I would have sympathy. But to constantly claim that they're doing this to promote more free choice? That's offensive.

Perhaps what frightens me most of all is that there's a very good chance nobody making these decisions had any clue that "the Columbian Coffee Woman" was one of the most popular people downtown.