Raise the Hammer

Yet when an outfit called King Paisley Haus applied for a patio license for what is now Saigon Asian at the corner of Paisley and King in Westdale, they received a limited license in spite of receiving the most opposition an LLBO application has ever faced (something in the order of 400 letters and signatures). When it comes to Mac, the city is always willing to accommodate.

Fortunately the license was too limited for the King Paisley Haus gang and they took a pass. I'm all for Euro style outdoor cafes, etc., but the last thing Westdale needed was the massive beer garden they were proposing.

let's not forget that "west town" annex on locke. they were denied a patio and there it sits, empty. among other things, we are now the no patio, no fun city.

boarding up a place as a "punishment" to the city doesn't work since they don't give a crap. they'd rather it become a parking lot.. less work for the city employees in the long run. if only the entire city was nothing but surface parking, they would only have to put in an hour of actual work each year... calling paving companies to come fill potholes.

so sad.

not to sound like an old coot, but bar patios are not all the inocuous creatures this article makes them out to be anymore. nor are the patrons simply out to relax in the summer. bar patios have become an outdoor extension the the inside atmosphere because of the smoking regulations. i know, i work in bars and i live behind one. things have changed. patios are no longer the quiet summer spot. they are where everyone who smokes heads every twenty minutes or so, year round now and they expect and treat the patio as if it was a part of the space inside. this includes open doors with loud music, yelling and screaming, all of which is fine when contained by walls but soon becomes a huge liability for the residents of any area unlucky enough to host this type of establishment. i like bars and i like patios, but i would never support the opening of another outdoor smokers' room which is what we are really talking about here. and the idea of calling a restriction on a couple of patios as being anti business or anti development by the city is just ridiculous. if this was a couple of drive thrus you could use the same arguements the previous commenters have and they would be just as valid, which is, unfortunately, not at all. there are lots of ways for everybody to make this city a better place without destroying the peace and quiet of residential communities in the process.

Hey young coot... if I'm not mistaken, smoking regulations now ban smoking on outdoor public patios unless they are designated strictly as smoker only spaces. Also, it'd be a good idea to check out the atmosphere in the pubs in question before making rulings. Pubs are generally smaller establishments and attract a more select clientelle than bars. Outdoor patios on James North shouldn't be an issue since the neighbourhoods themselves are relatively noisy until late at night. The problem is that people think it's a strictly residential community. It's actually a city...a place where various functions of society take place, not just sleeping. Also, what are the rules and regs with respect to outdoor patios? If the bar you live by is incredibly noisy or boisterous, make a complaint. People applying for new licenses should be given the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps a trial period for the patio along with open sessions of council where residents can bring their issues forward to the owners and city legislators and have them addressed. The lousy owners should never be able to ruin it for those who intend to bring character and an improved atmosphere to our city.

coot, I can see your points however as Frank says, there are specific bylaws in place to address noise issues. The true solution to patio noise problems is through active enforcement of these laws. This means that neighbours should report violations, and the city needs to act on them. Fines should be set in such a manner that it is financially infeasible for bar owners to allow their patios to become rowdy. If necessary, they might have to close the patio after a certain time of day, or not allow drinks on the patio after a certain time, or simply have security on hand that can deal with the area before it gets out of hand.

A pub in the summer without a patio is like death for the owner. It's probably too late in the season now, but if you take a walk down Augusta in the summer, you'll see the patios rammed and the buildings empty... and a place like the corktown can never compete with these places in the summer without a patio.

I agree that a trial system might be appropriate.. or perhaps patio licenses should be issued with a yearly expiry and a small fee to renew. The fee covers the city's administration costs, and each year they look at the number of verified noise violations and decide whether the application goes through. Set a certain limit and if the bar goes over, they lose the license for a year...

everyone's missing the main point - enforcement IS the issue and that actually requires work from people at city hall. lots of work can be eliminated by simply stamping "NO" across the application. no time wasted enforcing noise bylaws when we can just eliminate the possibility of noise.

And what's with everyone leading off their sentences without upper casing? Maybe we should elimate capital letters altogether. somebody call mchattie and get him on that.

anyone lived in a pretty how town
(with up so floating many bells down)
spring summer autumn winter
he sang his didn't he danced his did

Women and men(both little and small)
cared for anyone not at all
they sowed their isn't they reaped their same
sun moon stars rain

children guessed(but only a few
and down they forgot as up they grew
autumn winter spring summer)
that noone loved him more by more

when by now and tree by leaf
she laughed his joy she cried his grief
bird by snow and stir by still
anyone's any was all to her

someones married their everyones
laughed their cryings and did their dance
(sleep wake hope and then)they
said their nevers they slept their dream

stars rain sun moon
(and only the snow can begin to explain
how children are apt to forget to remember
with up so floating many bells down)

one day anyone died i guess
(and noone stooped to kiss his face)
busy folk buried them side by side
little by little and was by was

all by all and deep by deep
and more by more they dream their sleep
noone and anyone earth by april
wish by spirit and if by yes.

Women and men(both dong and ding)
summer autumn winter spring
reaped their sowing and went their came
sun moon stars rain