Raise the Hammer

Council were told in the year the RHVP opened, by its own paid consultants, that they had to triple transit trips by 2021, or the RHVP would face poor levels of service.

However, they have done nothing toward increasing transit use, especially not to tripling-ridership levels.

Predctably, the RHVP is facing poor levels of service. Yet increasing ridership would be vastly cheaper--and less damaging to the citizens' health and environment--than building a new expansion to the Red Hill.

One grows tired of this constant pound-foolishness of our Council.

what do you mean, they've done nothing? They spent 100k removing a bus lane in Wards 1 and 2 because the 'Zellers/Target/whatever crappy store comes next' owners in Ward 5 don't like transit.

obviously the fiscally prudent response to all of this is to spend money on a fake bus lane pilot and then spend money to undo it. and then spend money to add lanes we don't need!

is that consultant report publicly available?

I truly have mixed feelings as I agree freeways invites more use; more congestion. It's just loosening the belt. Might as well put this out, a modified version of my earlier post.

A Proposal for a City-Wide Fair Safety Trade

• Pedestrians die in Lower City due to fast/wide streets.
• Car drivers die on Mountain due to lack of barrier on LINC freeway.

Here's a bargaining idea to save many, many lives in Hamilton.

• Add safety barrier to LINC which will also add (inwards) two extra lanes, for 6-lanes
• and Turn most Lower City 1-way streets into more pedestrianized 2-way streets (Complete Streets Lower City)

This will save many lives over years and decades.

I'm appealing to the whole spectrum here. Classic car owners, People Streets people, conservatives, hipsters, car-lovers, students, families. We may sometimes hate each other, but we must to work together to save lives.

October 19 may provide infrastructure improvements necessary to increase safety on LINC. From a practical perspective, virtually nobody here wants people dying on the streets in any form.

I'm aware that people are dying too often on the LINC due to the narrow median, cars crossing the median. The safety improvements to reduce deaths may involve expanding inwards to install a median barrier. That adds 2 extra lanes of traffic by expanding inwards (no outwards nature-destroying widening needed!). Viola. 6 lane LINC that's no wider than the original.

Yes, not all of us were for the freeway, but it's there now, it's useful, it provides a StoneyCreek-Dundas bypass nowadays (reducing crosstown traffic on Main-King, as traffic fell when LINC+RHVP finally got connected). Yes, not all of us is for loosening our belts, but not all of us are for 2-way streets either. However, we can be persuaded by major initiatives that is bundled with safety.

It could be a good bargaining chip to get more councillors working together.

In exchange for converting almost 100% of the Lower City 1-way streets to pedestrianized 2-way streets, we gain a 6-lane ring road around Hamilton. Everybody in affected wards gets something that benefits their ward. Work and run with that.

Safety improvements on LINC = 6 lane LINC (because of needing to add asphalt inwards to a median barrier). Less car drivers dying in Mountain, less pedestrians dying in Lower City.

A Fair Safety Trade

Mountain gets 6-lane LINC with good median safety barrier. Lower City gets Main/King/Queen/etc 2-way with upgraded brick sidewalks/bumpouts/ped features etc.

I'm not sure I 100% like my own idea. But it saves so many lives everywhere! Less people dying. That is not a "deal with the devil". Better vitality and businesses downtown, too. (See what James St N became after it became 2-way). It is a special situation where both cases literally provides sufficient taxpayer return just merely by all the lives saved, the business and commerce improvements, etc. Lower City should be a destination, not a crosstown route.

Funding may be available by Federal too for this infrastructure bargaining clip. If the money's there, let's do it. Let's also market it as a big bundled safety package, in addition to the usual benefits, to make the package more appealing to the whole city on average, so we don't all have to block each other. We're less likely to oppose another ward's changes if there are changes that we want in our own individual wards. Many could be happy with this safety perspective, on top of all the other benefits.

But I would only support it -- if the outer wards agree to let us Complete Streets the Lower City & build (not block) the LRT. Work together to extend it to Mountain (e.g. St. Joseph Hospital, Mohawk, Limeridge, wherever we agree it goes, etc). AND that major safety upgrades are done to RHVP/LINC to make accidents less fatal (median barrier) and maybe also make accidents a few percent less likely to happen (e.g. minor corrections to freeway specifications, water drainage, etc ... and if Federal forces money upon us specifically for freeways, then maybe fix defects such as poor camber/bank angles on critical curves -- as we anecdotally somehow seem to have more accidents than similar freeways even for similar speeds on similar curve radii).

Realistically, it is also a "market-it-to-the-residents" as well as a "market-it-to-the-council" issue; as everybody disagrees. Do whatever needs to be done. Space pops up when we install barriers which must be used up since median width on the straightaways is self-boobytrapped to add lanes when adding a barrier. Perhaps Carpool/Transit lanes. Safety upgrades. Whatever. Just make it a Fair Trade, please.

Again... I agree to the 6-lane widening (with safety upgrades) only if outer wards allows Lower City to become Complete Streets, and let Hamilton install the LRT. ;-)

Comment edited by mdrejhon on 2015-11-02 11:45:17

There needs to be some rather strict conditions attached (by Federal/Province), that all the below must be funded, before funds can be given for a LINC/RHVP widening:

• Major safety improvements mandatory Too many people are dying. Doing a "cheap widening" is likely to cause more people to die (even with median barrier). A median barrier is needed but cannot be the only safety improvement.

• Major flooding remediation mandatory Widening LINC/RHVP will increase flooding. There was a Mountain person who posted why funds weren't spent on flood remediation. Such a person would likely be for a LINC/RHVP widening, but he would be funding an increase in flooding! This will raise cost, but this issue needs to be be raised.

• Major transit improvements mandatory This includes LRT extensions (e.g. A-Line extension to Limeridge) and bigger HSR bus fleet Hamilton-wide, as well as a new express HSR bus on LINC/RHVP. This also requires that the Lower City LRT not be blocked, as the funded LRT needs to get started ASAP, but that the A-Line should start quicklhy in a positive Ottawa-style manner (Ottawa starts Phase 2 quickly right after Phase 1), rather than do Toronto-style delays in transit-building.

• New RHVP/LINC lane needs to be HOV/HOT right at the outset This is less frustrating than later converting a non-HOV to a HOV lane. The freeway is still adding capacity (...even though it will naturally be filled right back up induced demand...), but the HOV lane will keep express buses fast by sharing the HOV lane and make the lane move more than 2000 people per hour (as per typical freeway traffic).

...About the possible bundled transit improvements:

Pxtl came up with a good idea (though need a bit of efficiency tweaks...) of a new express bus route that takes advantage of a new HOV+transit lane on LINC/RHVP.

This bus can even connect to the A-Line LRT station at Limeridge mall! (Which could be built by the time this all happens, anyway...given Jason Farr's pending motion)

This isn't full true BRT as it would share with cars in a HOV+transit lane, but it provides a legitimate inexpensive additional rapid transit option provided there are good connection, and these buses will mesh with the Hamilton Rapid Transit network better in the post-LRT world.

From some calculations and it appears there's even (barely) enough space for some narrow protected median bus stations (using left-hand bus-only offramps) near some of the overpasses, especially at Limeridge Mall.

That would be a great transit connection to a future Limeridge A-Line LRT stop. With Jason Farr about to raise a motion for an early ask for an A-Line extension (in a more positive Ottawa/Waterloo attitude of starting LRT extensions sooner, rather than the Toronto-style indecisiveness. Ottawa's considering Phase 2 very shortly after Phase 1).

Obviously, not a perfect solution (I prefer transit-oriented developments), but I realistically see we need to win Mountain support for fast-tracking LRT extensions, more rapid transit HSR/LRT, metro-wide HSR bus expansion, etc.

Comment edited by mdrejhon on 2015-11-05 22:03:05

If there's too much traffic on red hill/linc, there is an obvious answer - put a price on it. Rush hour highway tolls will get rid of that congestion faster and cheaper than any number of new lanes and the money could help pay for more transit service, win-win.

Sure, tax it. Then, when the 18 wheeler traffic is back to roaring down main and king in the core, what's next? taxing trucks for using surface streets? We can also make it so that we're cramming our arterials with more vehicles. Road tolls don't fix the problem, they will compound it.

With Main 2-way (4 lanes, 2 car lanes per direction, with bike lanes) and stop-n-go traffic, trucks will find it cheaper to pay the toll than the extra gas getting through a Complete Streets Lower City. Just the way many residents down here would like it.

Granted, it probably won't be full Complete Streets, but the Lower City Hamilton status quo would make way for something better.

It would not be an allowed through truck route either, and there can be enforcement, if need be.

Not everyone agrees; I know. But you know, if we enhance LINC/RHVP, then it's a quid pro quo.

Comment edited by mdrejhon on 2015-11-02 14:22:29

What do you mean 'back to,' they never stopped as anyone who is actually in the core already knows. Trucks are only allowed to drive on truck routes, if we take those streets off the truck route we won't get trucks on them, it's pretty simple. I don't think you care one bit about main and king, I think you only care about not wanting to have to start paying a toll for your 'free' highway.

I think you're slightly oversimplifying the rules on truck routes.

But I agree that we need to take a hard look at our truck routes and actually make some choices about where we want trucks to go. Right now we have so many "truck routes" we might as well just let them have every major arterial.

Tolls make total sense to me.

A way is needed to politically sell it. We've got Detroit making shortcuts to Niagara Falls, so toll the through traffic, perhaps. Given this is a municipally funded freeway, it makes sense to toll outsiders that aren't adding to Hamilton's economy.

At least there seems to be some consistency by some of the powers-that-be in not understanding or accepting the concept of "induced demand". Proposing adding more lanes to the Red Hill/Linc and resisting segregated bike lanes both seem to ignore the induced demand principle.

Spectator May 25, 2015, URL not allowed

Citizens At City Hall May 29,2015 Some rush hour congestion on the two roads has generated calls for speedy expansion to six lanes each. Estimated construction cost for the widening has been reported as $80 to $100 million. Debt costs would be additional to that amount as city finances dictate that the monies would almost certainly have to be borrowed.

I found Pxtl's Red Hill Valley BRT idea quite interesting, for an L-Line express HSR bus.

https://twitter.com/Pxtl/status/66129178...

Since the median is boobytrapped (during safety upgrades) to automatically add 2 lanes when adding a center median barrier; we might as well figure out what the heck to do with 2 new lanes on the freeway, that we can tolerate co-operating over.

The widening of the freeway can be HOV/HOT/carpool lanes as a compromise. Carpools would be allowed to share the lanes with express buses. However, there would be offramps for buses directly into protected bus-only stations (with good barriers) nestled UNDER key overpasses such as Upper Wentworth next to Limeridge Mall. Elevators/stairs would go from the overpass to the stations themselves, as will pedestrian accesses directly linking into Limeridge Mall. If it ever overflows with bus congestion it could someday (if economically appropriate) to convert to a full LRT. For now, if the widening is foisted upon us, it realistically needs to be introduced as a kind of a HOV lane with a BRT-add-on.

Ottawa has BRT stations on their Queensway freeway too, complete with elevators/stairs from the overpasses above! It's been around since the 80s, and I grew up in Ottawa. Now they're replacing the BRT with LRT, even with Phase 2 being aimed to start fairly soon after Phase 1.

If this freeway expansion has to be built, this is a good way to make lemonade out of lemons (the perspective of lemons varies); satisfy Mountain and Lower City in a balance.

This would also be a great tie-in to an A-Line LRT extension into Limeridge mall. Obviously, a massive HSR bus expansion would be mandatory, along with the $300M bus garage that Hamilton needs for a massive HSR bus expansion. Perhaps include this in the Federal "ask".

Comment edited by mdrejhon on 2015-11-02 18:08:02

I don't think there's enough space under the bridges for both BRT stations and bypassing an HOV lane for cars around the BRT station. Putting them next to a bridge would work, but then you have a bus accelerating to merge with the HOV traffic. Or you have "HOV" cars parking behind a bus on the Linc, trying to merge into the left (fastest) lane of traffic to get around the bus.

I think Ryan is right about BRT - it really needs fully-dedicated lanes, otherwise it's just an express bus. And I don't think anybody calling for widening the Linc/RHVP would be happy with "as a bus-only-lane!"

"BRT" vs "express bus", either is better than no transit enhancement to freeway widening. Let's ignore the marketing terminology for the moment. (Technically I agree with Ryan on what constitutes "BRT", but unfortunately it's a delicate game of compromise).

Hopefully sanity wins. But let's say, imagine, RHVP/LINC widening becomes unavoidable and Mountain eagerly agrees to funded improved transit piggybacked on the widening. So making a compromise lemonade out of lemons:

And actually, there's space at some of them when done creatively:

• Temporary taper-down the width of leftmost shoulder lanes where the median bus stations are. Basically left shoulder can briefly become only 2 meter wide for the length of the BRT station. This transfers shoulder space to platform space. Strong bus station walls protect the median station. Right-hand shoulder is unaffected.
• Put covered bus stations adjacent to the bridge (in front or past it) to avoid the bridge pillar space-vs-platform competing-space issue. Buses would only go around pillar immediately after leaving median bus station. That way, platform widths don't compete for space with the bridge pillar.
• If absolutely necessary, very, very slight minor outwards sideways lane shift (about ~1-2 meters) for the remainder of lanes. This frees up 2-4 meters of width for the bus station.

At any random point along the whole LINC, there's enough median space for a bus station if you do the above. It looks tight, but there's actually 4.5 lanes of freeway width when you observe the extremely wide left shoulder lanes and the width of median allowing for a very wide median barrier that has room for mega-streetlamps (which isn't required inside the bus stations). That's more than enough space for 2 lanes of bus plus reasonable platform width (less than 1 lanewidth per platform).

Combined temporarily reduced shoulder width only for station length (~4 extra meters) and outward tapered outwards sideways freeway lane shift (total ~2-4 extra meters) so slight that it is not very noticeable to cars, would free up plenty of space (6-8 meters) needed the median bus station platforms that are about 3 meters wide, plus the necessary strong station walls separating freeway traffic from the bus station. In fact, we don't even need platforms that deep if the station layout is good, dry and safe.

While it looks tight, it's certainly doable. I'm pointing out there's indeed space for median bus stations. You'd still have 3 lanes (including HOV) going past both sides of the bus stations. The bus platforms don't need to be very wide especially if you have overhead cover that spans the station. This keeps the road dry, avoiding splashes. The outwards tapered lane shifting may not even be needed, if the whole station is covered and immediately adjacent to bridge.

The alternative simpler option (parclo stations) is not enough of a transit enhancement as a required attached condition on freeway widening, and would necessitate buses trying to fight traffic, with ramps/HOV lanes on opposite sides of the freeway. Besides, who want to wait at suburban parclo stations in the winter, feeling the wind of cars passing by on a wet road, when we can have a few simple covered median stations keeping the wind/wetness out, and a few simple push-button operated overhead infrared heaters (like GO uses) or even enclosed heated mini-rooms at one end of the platform (elevator/stairs end).

We only need maybe four or five small median bus transfer interchanges at strategic underpasses, this isn't a megaproject... Most of the cost would be the additional buses, which we need anyway!

Comment edited by mdrejhon on 2015-11-03 14:59:25

If they add more lanes, the new lanes should be dedicated express bus lanes and/or dedicated truck lanes. But not for more automobiles in general.

So I got carried away on Google Maps again.

Make it an HOV/bus lane and then run an express bus on it. I give you the L-line.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=z...

Of course, there are several problems with this, like the fact that every onramp would need to have an added bus-stop (sidewalk and possible widening) and the ability to go straight-through from the offramp back into the onramp... maybe traffic signal control too? Plus there are safety questions about running a bus on an expressway. Plus with the typical HOV design the HOV lane is on the far side from the ramps (and putting an HOV on the right side sounds insanely dangerous). Plus the city already has a planned L-line out to Waterdown, but how can you have a bus on the Linc and not call it the L-line?

But it can hit the Ancaster Business Centre, the Meadowlands, Lime Ridge Mall, Carmen's, the Queenston Traffic Circle (the terminus of the B-line), Eastgate Square, and the new Confederation GO station.

Comment edited by Pxtl on 2015-11-02 18:28:45

Given enough space (freeway lane shifting outwards in key areas) there can be BRT offramps on the left into dedicated bus-only median stations under bridges.

...Obviously, transit-oriented developments are difficult at parclo's inside an established suburb. Some of them will be excellent interchange points (e.g. direct indoor walk to Limeridge Mall) while others may become enhanced bus transfer points. However, it would still be good for province/federal to package HOV+BRT as a required part of the freeway widening.

Assuming HOV+carpool lanes are used, with left-edge offramps to a few BRT stations, some of them will probably need to serve as enhanced interchange stations to a greatly upgraded HSR bus network. If funds is unavoidably be spent on widening the freeway, then the BRT potential aspect must simultaneously be investigated as well. It should be a required condition of any other government level granting subsidy (provincial, federal) for funding RHVP/LINC. The BRT angle is not perfect, but would provide very fast crosstown mountain transit, with proper HSR bus network integration (And eventually the Limeridge LRT connection that might already exist by the time the widening/BRT is done).

Adding a BRT element to the freeway widening would be an inexpensive add-on that may qualify for transit funding from another level of government. It's not the most perfect transit option, but it is a (relatively) inexpensive add-on.

Comment edited by mdrejhon on 2015-11-03 14:19:58

The city of Halifax, Nova Scotia, found that the cost to the taxpayers of providing municipal services to suburban households is over twice as much as providing the same services to urban households.

We cannot even afford the sprawl we have now. Adding more is insane.

There is also the question of storm run-off to add to the items apparently not considered by Conley at this stage.

The centre median is currently grass/natural material which aids in the absorption of water. If the median is paved, we will have more water run-off into the creek and stormwater system. A lot of money has already been spent to prevent flooding on this highway.

Expanding is not a simple matter of paving over the centre median.

The centre median is there only because they surveyed for six lanes but built only four when the highway was finally constructed. It is inevitable that it will become six.

It might be a better trade off to increase capacity on the major arterial roadways and restrict capacity on the smaller ones - like Aberdeen and Queen. This might have the effect of diverting traffic out of these residential areas.

Actually, the Linc has one spot where the centre median cannot be removed: there's a pedestrian underpass under the Linc over by MacNab school. The median gap there is a large open space, not the narrow columns we see at the highway overpasses. That bridge would have to be rebuilt somewhat for widening.

A nice dream, but all the lanes on the Linc in the world won't save Aberdeen and Queen because the 403 down the mountain is still 2 lanes each way. If anything it will make Aberdeen and Garth worse as more drivers go onto the link and the backups on the ramp to the 403 East get more congested, resulting greater numbers of drivers ditching the expressway to take Garth/Aberdeen as a bypass.

the thing I love about motions like this, and it's quick vote to proceed by majority of councillors is it brings the mega-optimists who like to declare "things have changed at city hall!", back down to earth.

The same guy who said he would have voted against the Cannon bike lanes because of their COST, wants to drop $100 million on a transportation idea that has been proven the world over to simply lead to more traffic and more cars.
Hamilton city hall wants us to be a mini-L.A. Not every single one of them. But the vast majority.

That's because the majority of city council are incompetents that couldn't manage a Burger King...voted in by even more incompetents that populate this city...

I personally think that major planning decisions like this should be handled by planning professionals who don't have to worry about being reelected. Let the councilors plan parades and pick the flowers for public gardens. These people are not qualified enough to be in charge of that much of our money.

Agreed!

totally agree. I've heard about so many amazing cities in North America, and around the world, recently where the professional staff and planners are the ones given authority to implement a 10 year transportation plan, or cycling network, transit system etc..... Here, every single issue has to go through council and that's where anything even remotely progressive or urban goes to die.

A totally new governance system that removes council from every detail of every decision would be phenomenal. They authorize direction of course, since they're the elected officials. But then that council directive would be carried out by people who actually know what they're doing.

Look at our lame-o Shifting Gears cycling plan. As lousy and bare-bones as it is, fact is, it was approved by council. That should be where their involvement ends. A competent cycling staff should then be tasked with carrying it out with the allowed annual budget. Instead, we get the same councillors who voted to approve the plan a decade ago, now do these one-off votes to remove a bike lane here or there because a few speeding car drivers in their ward don't like it. I don't see how Hamilton will ever realize it's potential under this system.

Price the roads to ease congestion

"...even if we could build new capacity quickly and cheaply, an economic principle called “latent demand” means traffic congestion would quickly return to its previous, frustrating level. Some people already avoid driving because of congestion."

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-commen...

A few more thoughts to consider....

1) Centennial Parkway has been under construction for most of the summer. A lot of traffic has avoided this road and used the RHVP, as drivers learned that despite congestion on the RHVP, its still faster on the RHVP to get where they are going

2) How many driver trips that use The RHVP / Linc do not originate or terminate within the city limits? (ie people using it as a shortcut between Brantford and Niagara bound). Seems irresponsible to finance a "solution" to a problem that is not caused by any residents or people who are employed within the city.

3) The most congested area of the RHVP in afternoon rush hour is between Barton and King St. The distance between the 3 interchanges (Queenston being the 3rd) is very small. As many people here have pointed out, what are the ways we can reduce the source of the congestion?.....Can the city explore the benefits of Ramp Meters, as I’ve seen many times myself more than 10 cars all trying to merge all at once, followed by no cars for more than 30 seconds?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramp_meter

You can add another vote to the "No" camp.

"2) How many driver trips that use The RHVP / Linc do not originate or terminate within the city limits? (ie people using it as a shortcut between Brantford and Niagara bound). Seems irresponsible to finance a "solution" to a problem that is not caused by any residents or people who are employed within the city."

It is not a "short cut." It is a legitimate route. If the province built the mid Penn, or turned Highway 3 into a direct route from Chatham, traffic would be reduced. As it is, getting down the 403 at times is more nightmarish than going down the Linc.

If you are driving from Brantford to Niagara, where are you supposed to go?

excerpt from article above....

"In 2000, a $650,000 experiment was mandated by the Minnesota State Legislature in response to citizen complaints and the efforts of State Senator Dick Day [2]. The study involved shutting off all 433 ramp meters in the Minneapolis-St. Paul area for eight weeks to test their effectiveness. The study was conducted by Cambridge Systematics and concluded that when the ramp meters were turned off freeway capacity decreased by 9%, travel times increased by 22%, freeway speeds dropped by 7% and crashes increased by 26%."

Put rail down the center of the Linc with tunnels to the stops at the major intersections. No sense wasting money widening if it is just for the common commuter. It should encourage people to take transit instead. This whole province needs more rail, put another line along the north service road, or Dundas street. We should not be wasting money on making streets wider, we should be investing in something that every metropolitan area has, and that is rail.

Every time I go to a "world class" city, I use public transit. Not only is the rail systems reliable, but its cheap and easy to use. Chicago, Baltimore (where main lines are free to use), Seattle (where transit is free from 9-5), Philly, Montreal is pretty good as well, Paris...etc. Special note getting to and from the airport where 3-5 bucks always gets you there or to downtown in under an hour.
In Ontario our rail is pitiful, made worse by the fact we have to borrow it off of other company's to move people on. We need to build more rail, even if private sector owns it, like all the lines in Japan.
Our highway use is very saturated.
One thing I don't understand as well , is why everything has to be in downtown Toronto. Why can't companies have satellite offices in the suburbs to keep people from driving in downtown all the time? Surely workers can get through a day without face to face contact from their desk. Off topic, but end of rant.
Also, our traffic problems are not on the B line. They are on the A line. Put LRT right down the middle of Upper James first. Downtown traffic is at worst bad a couple hours a day. Sorry , too much coffee today.

That's why Hamilton appears about to raise a motion to ask for more A-Line funds.

Brampton's LRT cancellation may expand Hamilton LRT funding: http://www.raisethehammer.org/article/27...

Specifically, see these tweets commented by Douglas and in the tweets, Jason Farr followed up already:

John Neary said about the new funds (from Brampton LRT cancellation) on Twitter:

John Neary ‏@jddneary Oct 28 @moore_oliver #HamOnt should ask for this $$ for the A-line

Jason Farr has a motion to ask for these funds for A-Line LRT:

Jason Farr Ham On ‏@JasonFarrHamOnt Oct 29 @jddneary @moore_oliver @FredEisenberger @MGreenWard3 @aidan_johnson @raisethehammer I have drafted a motion that will address this, John.

Jason Farr Ham On ‏@JasonFarrHamOnt Oct 29 @RyanMcGreal Done. Note it is a draft and efforts already underway on this. As well, I will work closely w mayor / Committe and C Murray

This isn't impossible.

Ottawa's starting Phase 2 LRT almost immediately after Phase 1 LRT.

And Kitchener-Waterloo is wanting to do LRT extensions fairly quickly.

We shouldn't inherit "Toronto" attitude here, Hamilton can link both A-Line (at least to Limeridge) and B-Line sooner than many of us may think is possible with Hamilton politics. We finally now have the right political climate to get B-Line finally started with 2017 procurement (contract signing before election), 2019 construction and 2023 completion. Only 3 councillors opposed transit-friendly development.

So I agree with you, bring on the starter segment of Mountain A-Line (to major destinations like St Joes, Mohawk, Limeridge, etc). But B-Line is where things will definitely get started, it's too late to change it according to the September 23 meeting or that we lose the funding (just like Brampton). It isn't a perfect LRT route, but it gets us started and something we can expand to the Mountain with!

Please, please do not assume that just because B-Line is being built first (the only LRT that can sucessfully be signed into contract before next election), we're not pressing hard (As LRT advocates) to get it up to the Mountain destinations as soon as possible.

We can't afford to play like Toronto. Fortunately, our mayor is not a Rob Ford. We need to play like Ottawa and Kitchener/Waterloo with A-Line construction beginning immediately after B-Line construction.

Obviously, this isn't necessarily mutually exclusive with a LINC/RHVP widening which (personally) I'm willing to tolerate as long as Mountain lets Lower City begin the LRT ASAP (which will also allow it to Mountain sooner).

Comment edited by mdrejhon on 2015-11-04 12:03:33

By the way, Toronto wants Brampton's LRT money to fund part their East Waterfront LRT line along Queen's Quay East!

A much needed project, too. Also as far removed from Brampton as Hamilton, but also a much needed project too.

Hamilton still should ask anyway; and other pots (additional funding) may come as well.

If we are going to waste more money on expanding this road when they were warned and are still being warned that continued expansion & new roads only bring more traffic, toll it and restrict truck traffic to prevent circumvention. This road was never the boon people pretended it was and is why it took so long before private development interest finally found a tool in Di Ianni to force it through and sue anyone who dared oppose it. We can't even keep a bus lane downtown yet we are willing to blow millions on expanding a road we haven't finished paying for yet? That is just plain stupid. In addition it will cause our infrastructure problems everywhere else to get worse. Priorities are completely screwed and we can't allow the city to continue on this idiotic path that will again just bring more traffic and then there will be a 6 lane headache. We need to change the culture now and remove more cars from the roads through other public transit methods not paving our city completely and digging further into debt on a path that really has no end.