Raise the Hammer

I just read something in the spec about the chamber of commerce asking people to write city hall so we don't lose the ti-cats. The spec didn't quite quote enough (or the chamber of commerce is inept) but it wasn't clear to me what they were suggesting we tell council to do?

Should we go back to an east mountain site? Ask Burlington to loan us the money for a CP site? Ask the province to hand us parts of Aldershot? At this point, how exactly could we keep the cats in Hamilton?

"No one but you Ryan (and your internet minions) are talking about a 'scalable' stadium on the West Harbour."

YOU'VE GOT TO BE KIDDING! All those comments on the Spec swing towards WH and a scalable stadium. I am a huge ti-cat fan, and work in an enivornment of dozens and dozens of blue collar workers whom of which MANY have completly been swayed back to WH. Non of them have heard of RTH (at least not until Ryan's recent Troop interview).

Council has one choice, one decision. WH.

Allow me to emphasize the important information provided here, which is in fact the most important piece of the puzzle which some are having difficultly gleaning out of the story.

Toronto 2015 CEO Ian Troop just issued a public statement to clarify the position of the Pan Am Games host corporation: "The February 1, 2011 deadline will not be extended under any circumstances."

.

Toronto 2015 CEO Ian Troop just issued a public statement to clarify the position of the Pan Am Games host corporation: "The February 1, 2011 deadline will not be extended under any circumstances."

.

Toronto 2015 CEO Ian Troop just issued a public statement to clarify the position of the Pan Am Games host corporation: "The February 1, 2011 deadline will not be extended under any circumstances."

Comment edited by transitstudent on 2011-01-06 17:53:21

All of your are complicit in this debacle.

Nice try Bob but the jig is up.

How does it get any clearer than "to promote amateur sport" and "to create much-needed infrastructure which promotes healthy, active communities and high performance amateur athletic development."

How does it get any clearer than "Should the municipality of Burlington wish to submit a proposal for the larger CFL venue, it will be evaluated using the same standards, criteria and deadline as applied to Hamilton."

How does it get any clearer than "The February 1, 2011 deadline will not be extended under any circumstances."

The Ticats played a tough game but fumbled in the end zone. Now they have no home and no one to blame but themselves.

Link to Chamber letter:

http://www.hamiltonchamber.on.ca/index.p...

They won't open Conf Park - they already received enough info that the stadium and associated Bob's World won't fit there due to QEW and Lake Ontario setbacks.

It's finally over - 6,000 seats on the WH for community use, soccer, PanAm and concerts. Thank goodness.

I hate to feed the troll but since the banhammer doesn't get dropped on RTH with great frequency I might as well.

The Chamber letter was released on Dec 24 and only made public today???

Jason my exact thoughts. Three weeks might as well be a lifetime in this saga.

I should also add that many many of us hold seasons tix for the Cats. That will all end. Done. We can't even stomach the idea of going to another game now. Certainly not while Scott Mitchell is steering blindly at the helm, all while the care-taker has been locked up in the broom closet never to be heard from again (so it seems).

Kids, time to switch to soccer. Sounds more palatable.

Give it up TreyS, Confederation Park is a non starter. It's a frigging park. Even council gets that.

Actually there was work done behind the scenes before the Conf Park vote and councillors received the info. That's why in the meeting that day at city hall (not reported in the media of course) some councillors said "we already know the site won't work so why bother studying it?"

I enjoy soccer more and more each year. A 6,000 seat stadium would be perfect for the USL or NASL. Build it scalable so we can expand it to MLS size down the road. Liberty Village in TO seems to love having Toronto FC next door.

There are some serious issues going on with this crazy city! Is there any possibility that they could link the West Harbour into something that would bring the Festival of Friends there? I was very shocked to hear about it moving to Ancaster, but still getting municiple money. That is in no way urban renewal. Loren Lieberman, Tara Crugnale and Bernie Morelli should be put in stocks and paraded through down town...oh no wait we probably don't have a permit for that!

"This simply means that if Hamilton can come up with a suitable alternative that accommodates the Cats, Hostco will listen."

I guess you can't read, Ian Troop already explained this on Monday.

"When they were deliberating, Hamilton Council said they had no interest in a smaller stadium because it would be redundant with Ron Joyce Stadium in McMaster. If you look at our Plan B sites, they're all 5,500-6,500 seat stadiums that would be predominantly a community use."

Asked to clarify whether Hamilton's bid must be for a larger venue size and a professional tenant, Troop responded, "It doesn't. If Hamilton wanted to go with a 5,500-6,500 seat stadium, we would have gone with that."

http://www.raisethehammer.org/article/1274/troop:_6000_seat_pan_am_stadium_is_viable_feb_1_deadline_is_final

I thought West Harbour was a park too?

Are you kidding me? It's an industrial brownfield.

Trey, you call this a park?

http://media.mmgdailies.topscms.com/imag...

http://media.mmgdailies.topscms.com/imag...

http://mattjelly.files.wordpress.com/201...

Comment edited by jason on 2011-01-06 18:12:53

I thought West Harbour was a park too?

Yeah that Rheem building sure is a gorgeous parkland paradise as it stands today.

Trey:

To learn about Confederation Park, attend the General Issues Committee Monday, January 10, 9:30 AM agenda item 8.2 "Confederation Park Master Plan" http://www.hamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/C0DC...

Want to pack a 6,000+ stadium? Bring soccer to Hamilton. Trust me. You've never seen the value of sponsorship along with a massive fan base (local, regional, national, international) until you've seen soccer. Want to bring more affluence? Bring soccer. Want kids off the streets and engaged in amateur athletics? Bring soccer. Trust me, you will have major opportunities knocking at the door. Pan-Am is the ticket. The writing has been all over the WH wall for soccer. Along with other sports, lacrosse comes to mind. Now is the time to capture the WH wave. Be smart Hamilton, put the emotions aside and be smart.

Corporate Sponsor, I hope you live in Hamilton. If so, PLEASE email this to council and the mayor.

@Ryan wrote: "...the hard deadline effectively kills the Ticats' bid to build the stadium with Pan Am money."

Shouldn't that statement be declared as a personal estimation, based on what information you have here in Hamilton?

I still bet you are wrong but I'm agreeing to disagree at this point. The frustrated arguing will only continue in the absence of facts we simply don't have out here now.

Good post, Corporate Sponsor.

An additional benefit would be to have the Canadian Soccer Association become a permanent long-term tenant at the new west harbour stadium for training their national youth developmental teams. Right now, only 2 out of 267 players in the Canadian National Soccer Team Under 23 player pool are from the Hamilton area. Having a permanent CSA presence at the west harbour would encourage more young Hamiltonians, including those living in the downtown area, to play more soccer, improve their skills and increase their fitness.

And the inner portion of the velodrome can have an indoor soccer pitch.

I guarantee you, Scott Mitchell is screaming at someone right now, with ugly little veins standing out on his temples.

I know I posted this in another article but...

Maybe its time for Hamilton to stand up for itself. The Bob Young owned Ticats have decided to turn their backs on us, so its time to return the favour.

So far, the city has spent some $10 million on acquiring land for a stadium to replace Ivor Wynne. After exhaustive studies, many votes, and countless hours used up by city staff all to play this little shell game of having the stadium moved to Aldershot (which was Bob Young's preference all along)its time for the city to create its own legacy tenant. Seeing as the Ticats have decided to use decades old thinking to come up with a plan that most experts would agree only creates white elephant stadiums, we need to ensure that these tax dollars will provide for the betterment of the community and not just a small number of rich cronies looking to make themselves richer off the backs of the canadian taxpayer. There's a very good reason that most other cities are building their new sports complexes in their city centres. In fact FIFA's own document titled "Football Stadiums: Technical Recommendations and Requirements" states that...

"In an ideal world, the ultimate location would probably be a large city-centre site with
good access to public transport, major roads and motorways and parking that can be
used by others when games are not being played. This reduces the possibility that large
parking areas will be used for as little as 100 to 200 hours per year. A stadium with
ambitions to host international events is more attractive to event holders if it is within
comfortable reach of hotels and active commercial environments and at least one
international airport."

If there is $70 million of senior level funding available, I suggest we take $2 million of the future fund to secure a USL-1 soccer franchise and build a 12-15,000 seat stadium at the west harbour designed for future expansion. This community owned franchise could be called The Hamilton Football Club. And seeing as soccer has much more growth potential long-term, especially with our diverse population, I see soccer as being the proper tenant for our new stadium. That is what the pan am stadium will be used for anyways.

Maybe once Bob Young sells the team or makes ammends, the Ticats can be offered a nice part in the new Hamilton stadium. Part of that would require firing Scott Mitchell. As a huge Ticat fan, I am completely disgusted at the way they have crapped on our city's history with that club. It is the oldest sports club in North America, formed when our great country was only 2 years old, and they have the audacity to even suggest moving the team outside the city that it has called home for 141 years?!? Until they are gone, I will no longer consider them our club. And I guess it gives new meaning to the CFL's slogan " Its Our Game!" We're all supposed to be caretakers of that club, but if Bob Young wants to be the only caretaker, he's welcome to it.

Located in Toronto, we belong to a voice for one of the largest participation sports in the world. We cannot interfere in any way in your city politics at this sensitive juncture. However, my statement above holds true. Hamilton will be a winner, if it can make the correct hard-core leadership decisions that are truly needed, now. From a short distance away, we silently applaud those who can see this massive economic opportunity that sits at the feet of Hamilton.

Pan-Am 2015 is only the beginning, but the necessary component to jump start your engines. Help yourselves help your community and the rest will fall into place. You have a jewel down on the waterfront, and we see ALL the advantages it holds.

I support your writing campaign. Write your mayor, write your councilors.

"We are hopeful that Council will find a solution for the stadium by this deadline."

That line says it all though. Will they find a solution?

Wow, after many submissions The Spectator finally printed one of my letters to the editor

Comment edited by mrjanitor on 2011-01-06 19:11:24

Nicely done... Good read for me; I do see your points.

Comment edited by Wentworthst on 2011-01-06 19:34:49

Curiousier and curiousier...

So looks like our last best chance at securing the provincial and federal funds (and building a real legacy for amateur sports in our community)is for Hamilton City Council to put forward a proposal for a small community stadium/athletics centre and velodrome on the West Harbour.

What does everyone say to a rally at City Hall ahead of the council meeting which is at 7pm on Wednesday, January 12th? Say everyone meets up at 6.30 and then packs council chambers afterwards?

Once everyone has agreed as to the logistics, I can post it as an event on this site...

My head is spinning trying to keep track of the spin. Could some of you folks help me with these questions.

1) Has not the West Harbour Stadium Site been listed as the preferred location for two commonwealth game bids and now one Pan Am bid?

2) Is not Bob Young on record as saying he would support a stadium anywhere but changed his mind?

3) Have the Tiger Cats ever released any business plan regarding one site or another?

4) Don't we subsidize Ivor Wynne and Ti Cats to the tune of $1000000 per year (or $100000 per game) already?

5) What is this Ti Cat Line of Credit I keep hearing about?

6) Didn't the Ti Cats walk away from Fenn's mediation?

7) Is this really a Pan Am Stadium anymore, or a Ti Cat stadium?

8) Has there ever been any mention of raising ticket price for Ti Cat games?

9) Any guesses on how much CMHL will lose in revenue if the Ti Cats go?

10) Shouldn't former employees of the Ti Cats that are now elected officials remove themselves from the debate?

There just seems to be so much random absolutely contradictory information floating around, and it is largely coming from the mouthes of the talk show hosts Bill Kelly and Scott Thompson.

I just rec'd a phone call from some automated survey...not sure who by as my wife answered.

3 questions: stadium at confed park? yes/no do you support a civic stadium? yes/no do you support a scalable stadium at the west harbour? yes/no

I am glad i recieved this call as for 2 reasons...firstly it is nice to be heard but more importantly it wasn't Chris Ecklund calling me to come down to his sh!tty wingfest!

Go West Harbour Go!

It would seem that the Scott and Bob show has now finally even pissed off Ian Troop.

As the late great Don Meredith would have said .....boys " turn out the lights the party's over!"

Looks good on them.

Lets get on with making our city great!

Shempatolla

Why is Ian Troop annoyed with CHML Ticat boosters?

Wow two scoops in less than a week. Its all killer, no filler!

I don't know weather to be happy or cry myself to sleep over the the stellar investigative journalism coming from The Voice of the Tiger Cats or that newspaper.....whats the name....sounds like Percolator or something like that.....

@soccer a velodrome around a soccer pitch is not a bad idea. but the bankings will have to be mechanically lowered and the stands able to be moved forward or else it will be the worst soccer stadium in the world to watch a live game and the worst to watch a velo race.

Just travel 1.5 hours west to see London's velodrome. and travel .75 hours east to see Toronto's BMo field. the two couldn't be made into one venue.

plus it would at least be a 350 M track to circle a ball field, whereas around 250 M is an olympic standard. Any longer makes for a more boring race, velo racing needs bankings, that's where the excitement happens.

It's astounding how little WH fanatics (sorry Rheem fanatics) know or care about sports.

Comment edited by TreyS on 2011-01-06 21:42:21

Yes, I did watch the hockey game last night, and I am a former Ticat season ticket holder. Supporting City building and being a sports fan are not mutually exclusive passions. I give up at all trying to be logical and rationale about this issue. As much as I respect the Ticats and any other business's attempt to turn a profit, I don't respect their tactics in during this process. There is no 'us' against 'them'. We are all Hamiltonians and have a vested interest in making this community a better place to live and work.

TreyS, I agree with you, soccer pitch inside a velodrome is a non-starter. I really think it's a bad idea to combine the two. That said I think a velodrome is arguably more important than the stadium, and if we build a smaller scalable stadium I hope more money is spent on the velodrome.

Ray Fullerton, thanks for providing that letter from the chamber of commerce, although I admit I'm not quite sure what it's advocating other than "flail your arms about wildly." It certainly doesn't suggest a course of action for counsel, or an alternate site, it really just says "do something!" This might be good advice if we were back in time about a year ago, and had plenty of time to come to some consensus, but at this stage in the game, unless the chamber of commerce had a constructive suggestion, yelling at counsel to "do something" seems unhelpful.

I'm going to keep posting this link until everyone understands the HUGE potential of a velodrome:

http://www.chicagovelocampus.com/

This would be huge for the WH

The plan was never for a soccer pitch of any kind inside of a velo drome. They are two distinct and seperate facilities. Where do people come up with this stuff?

@ray fullerton

I was refering to Mssrs Mitchell and Young. HOSTCO has been on a tight time table since the decision to hand the Pan Am Games to southern Ontario. This nearly year long odyssey by the TiCats which has seen them hijack a public process to satisfy their own needs has led to needless delays and it seems will result in them not getting anything at all unless they eat crow and sign on the West Harbour.

Why is it that suddenly a 22000 seat stadium is enough for them? They average a little better than that at IWS but say they cannot make money.

Its because they have a developer in Burlington willing to pave a greenfield to give them the parking they want to charge you, me and the gate post for. By tying their hopes and dreams to parking spaces and holding people hostage in their own retail zone they Tiger Cats are exposing the failures of their business plan. After the first few games in a new "driveway to driveway" stadium .... the empty parking spaces won't be generating much revenue.

Its moot anyway as Mr Troop has just made it perfectly clear. He seems as tired with these games as the rest of us.

Why is it that suddenly a 22000 seat stadium is enough for them?

Because it's easier to lie and fudge the numbers by throwing out a new stadium size that hasn't been discussed yet. Just like it's easy to say it will cost somewhere between $80 and $120 million to build.
Yea, and I'm the market for a new house, but I MUST stick to my budget of between $200,000 - $900,000.

In some ways the best part i the fate of bob young ... play hard ball push it all to the max, and get nothing .. Important lesson .. some times its good to go with the flow ...

"The fate of Bob Young". Interesting phrase. Boy, I sure wish I had his fate going in my life right now that is for sure. This having to work for a living really sucks.

Shempatolla, I think the soccer/velodrome comments are in response to a comment by "soccer" above, which you may have missed. Here is the entire post quoted for you: "And the inner portion of the velodrome can have an indoor soccer pitch."

@Trey my comment above about a soccer pitch indoors was not specific enough. I hadnt meant it to Be a full size pitch but a smaller indoor training facility. My thoughts were if you want to attract the CSA then give them year round training options. Chicago's velodrome is more than just cycling. It has a pool too for example and links to outdoor MTB trails. Ever since the ticats got rid of T&F in Hamilton for pan am thus discussion has been only about football when our panam facilities should be about our community amateur sport legacy. And that means multipurpose, multi sport facilities. The velodrome won't have people cycling 24/7 so think outside the box on how to increase community use. More community use means more people and more investment. An indoor track for running too for example. It need not be official size but would be used regardless of its length because the region has limited indoor running facilities too. heck Hamilton lacks suitable outdoor track facilities. Too bad the pool likely going to Mac couldn't be in the same facility in an adjacent building. It would become a triathlon training meccha in the winter.

Build facilities that The community will use. It is a better investment than another large football stadium. That was the intent of my posting above.

The City of Hamilton has earned the right to benefit from the Pan Am Games. The City of Hamilton (not Burlington, Mississauga, Brampton or Markham) spent the better part of a decade making two Commonwealth Games bids and helped to set the table for a winning Toronto 2015 Pan Am Games bid in November, 2009. It is important to remember that the Caribbean Pan-Am nations, most of which are also Commonwealth nations, held the swing votes that carried the Toronto bid to victory.

With a 6,000 seat scalable Pan Am soccer stadium and a permanent velodrome at the west harbour, Hamilton could position itself as a soccer hub for southwestern Ontario and an indoor cycling hub for eastern Canada and the northeast United States. It would be an absolute disgrace if Mayor Bratina and Hamilton city council turn their backs on these opportunities on January 12, 2011 and lay down to allow a Pan Am stadium in Burlington, Mississauga, Brampton or Markham.

Comment edited by RenaissanceWatcher on 2011-01-06 23:58:18

From http://sports.nationalpost.com/2011/01/0...

During a meeting Wednesday the Ticats told Burlington officials the stadium, to be used as a soccer venue during the 2015 Pan-Am Games, would require no capital funds from the city.

And yet the Toronto 2015 website identifies one of the requirements as...

Municipalities to participate in the capital cost of construction.

http://www.toronto2015.org/lang/en/news/...

Do the Tiger-Cats even know how this process is supposed to work?

Comment edited by George on 2011-01-07 00:43:55

Interesting reading this in retrospect, from Aug. 11/2010.

"Sources also say if he chose to move the team elsewhere, he could go to nearby Burlington, and the cost of building a stadium wouldn’t be prohibitive."

Perry Lefko

I'm just disappointed all around - with Scott Mitchell and Bob Young, with Hamilton council, and embarassed to call myself a Hamiltonian given the charade this has turned into. How embarassing. This is a fantastic economic opportunity that has graced Hamilton and look how the headless chickens on all sides have handled it. Shameful.

An opinion piece by Andrew Dreschel titled "Read CEO's lips: No deadline extensions. Period" in the print and online versions of the Hamilton Spectator today contains the following quote from Toronto 2015 CEO Ian Troop:

"Our partner is Hamilton; our funding is attributed to a stadium that was supposed to be built; our money is not targeted to the Hamilton Tiger-Cats."

So far, so good.

However, Dreschel states:

"Mercifully, this should all come to a head Jan 12, when Hamilton council meets to either ratify or reverse its decision not to study Confederation Park."

And Dreschel later states:

"The game is all but over, folks.

Once Hamilton throws in the towel, Hostco will choose between Brampton, Markham and Mississauga as the home for a community stadium no larger than 6,500 seats. Troop says the winner will be announced in the third or fourth week of January."

Dreschel's opinion piece is puzzling in two ways.

First, he does not mention the possible option of a scalable 6,500 seat west harbour Pan Am stadium. Surely Mayor Bratina and Hamilton city council won't "throw in the towel" without a motion to consider and vote on the scalable stadium option. Or will they?

Second, either Dreschel has made a typo in his article or Hostco will actually be announcing the stadium winning city one to two weeks before the February 1st deadline.

Here is the link to Dreschel's opinion piece: http://www.thespec.com/news/local/articl...

Hopefully, there will be two Hamilton city councillors willing to move and second a motion on January 12th to consider submitting the scalable west harbour Pan Am stadium option to Hostco prior to the February 1st deadline. And, unless Dreschel made a typo in his article, the City of Hamilton needs to submit the scalable stadium option to Hostco as soon as possible after the January 12th city council meeting to have a chance of Hostco announcing it as the stadium winning city in the third or fourth week of January.

Comment edited by RenaissanceWatcher on 2011-01-07 08:31:44

It's always been WH.

I'm curious as to what the Ti-Cat organization is going to do when their serving of crow is too much to handle in one sitting.

Troop is on CHML right now.

Poor Bill Kelly, Ian Troop is definitely not telling him what he wants to hear.

Can someone please clarify for me? City Council meets on Wednesday to once again try and re open Confed Park, correct? if so, and Bratina is once again turned down, then what happens? How or who makes the call to finally say "we taking a small WH stadium" or "Hostco-keep your money" How exactly will it work come Wednesday night?

No news from Troop for those who have been paying attention this week, but he confirms that Hamilton is in the driver's seat and a 6000 seat "community sized" stadium at West Harbour is still a viable option and would effectively end talks of a stadium in Aldershot or any of the Plan B sites.

Again on CHML. Paletta is on deck. Get ready for some softballs from Ticat-obsessed Bill "The Shill" Kelly.

Just caught the end of this interview and boy is Bill completely out of touch. He kept trying to open the "legacy tenant" issue with Troop and he was not getting what he wanted. I don't think he understands the requirements at all. A SMALL STADIUM HAS A LEGACY OF COMMUNITY USE. Troop practically had to smash him over the head with it. Bill really thought that a small stadium without the cats would not fulfill the requirements. BILL: How many times do you need to be told "YES IT DOES" before you get it?

Then after he ended the interview, he showed that he clearly still doesn't get it - ending it with something like 'So is it game over? Has Hamilton lost the stadium and the games?'

Wow.

Read between the lines, Ryan.

Here's what Troop is saying between the lines: "For God sakes Hamilton, take the scalable 6,000 seat stadium at WH! I'm begging you! What, do I need to gift wrap it for you? Spell it out in semaphore? Take it! It's yours Godammit!"

"Upper James is the new Main Street"?? Where does Kelly find these yahoos?

Anyone listening to CHML?

"Upper James is the new Main Street"? hahahahahahaha

Christ almighty, I can't listen to Bill Kelly any more. I can feel my I.Q. going down by the minute.

Speaking of CHML, I will share with you a set of emails between myself and that jacka$$ Scott Thompson. Sorry in advance, its a tad long but funny:

Dear CHML, I am 42 years old. I am a life long resident of Hamilton: born and raised and currently living on the west Mountain. I have listened to your radio station since I first remembered listening to a radio. I am deeply proud of my hometown and would defend it to my last breath. I wrote to your station back in the summertime expressing my disappointment and disdain for the manner of your reporting on the stadium issue and your obvious bias toward the Tiger-Cats. Basically and simply, I warned you back in the summer to report this issue accurately or permanently lose me as a listener. Obviously, the sponsorship of the Tiger-Cats is much more important to you then reporting the entire truth and I cannot stand it any longer. From this point forward I will be not be tuning into your station. I shall get my information from other sources both for local and otherwise. No response is required on your behalf as I doubt you truly care about anyone who doesn’t sponsor your station or whom expresses an opinion other than what the Tiger-Cats want the public to hear. I just thought that perhaps maybe, you were keeping track of who in this fine city hasn’t completely swallowed the Cool-Aid hook, line and sinker. If there is such a count being kept, put me down as in favor of my city and not my beloved Tiger-Cats. I never thought my city would be held hostage by a greedy CFL owner who thinks he is owed everything because he ‘rescued’ a sports franchise and have THE radio station in the city back him blindly regardless of the facts.

From: Scott Thompson Sent: December 31, 2010 11:12 AM To: Subject: RE: Wish to Inform You You put 1 dollar in and get 2 back from government. That's tripling your money. What's not to understand? If we don't take it Burlington gladly will....(or will find others to invest, who will not invest in Hamilton due to council)

Hamilton loses again... We need a council with a better education than grade 10...

Thanks John.... Scott

p.s. it makes me laugh when people say we take 'any' side in a debate...(Ticats, in this case) It's simply not true and is a great excuse for laziness. If you really believe this,it's easy to see why you think the way you do. Go back to your nap.

The Scott Thompson Show News/Talk 900 CHML Hamilton, Ont. CAN. 905.521.9900x42205 scottthompson@900chml.com

From: Scott Thompson [mailto:scottthompson@900chml.com] Sent: Friday, December 31, 2010 11:25 AM To: Subject: RE: Wish to Inform You

Sorry John.. Meant to ask... What 'facts' are we missing? I will use those 'facts' on air to represent your view... If you can list a few.... Thanks scott

The Scott Thompson Show News/Talk 900 CHML Hamilton, Ont. CAN. 905.521.9900x42205 scottthompson@900chml.com

From: Sent: December 31, 2010 11:35 AM To: Scott Thompson Subject: RE: Wish to Inform You Sorry Scott, I’m having my nap and cannot be disturbed. Spent the morning listening to Oldies 1150, very refreshing but I will admit its going to take some time to get used to not having CHML on , I will miss it but the deed is done and I just can’t listen to your station anymore. As for helping you fill time on your show, ‘no thanks’, as I said, I’m done with Hometown radio. Cheers and happy New Year you (I was missing you on my drive home)

John

I didn't think you had any facts.....Nor do the laughing stock who want to pass on free government money.

Hope you enjoyed your life in Hamilton in the 1960's! Oldies will help you stay in the past. No surprise there.

Only people who like "current" affairs tune into CHML.

Twist the night away! Happy New Year. Scott

The Scott Thompson Show News/Talk 900 CHML Hamilton, Ont. CAN. 905.521.9900x42205 scottthompson@900chml.com

Paletta is on. He is "slightly prejudiced" but thinks his is the best spot for a ticat stadium.

yes, just "slightly" prejudiced

Comment edited by seancb on 2011-01-07 09:45:57

Paletta: Municipal work required to amend the official plan and zoning bylaw to allow for more than 9000 seats at the site. Process includes public consultation.

So what happens if this public consultation doesn't take place before Feb 1?
What happens if public meetings occur in 2 or 3 months and Aldershot residents show up with (figurative) pitchforks and torches to oppose the stadium? It doesn't seem like public consultation when you go ahead with the project first and then ask residents whether you should have done it.

Bill is STILL talking about the ticats as a legacy tenant at a small stadium at West Harbour! I can't listen anymore.

I think he hates Hamilton... it's the only angle that makes his comments make any sense.

Comment edited by seancb on 2011-01-07 09:59:10

Ryan, thanks for doing this. My questions, if you get a chance to ask them, concern the funding:

The Ticats/CHML still keep stating that the amount of funding available to this project is up to $100 million. What funding would be available to an Aldershot stadium? Is the funding for our velodrome tied somehow to the stadium funding: i.e. if we opt for a permanent velodrome does that reduce the amount available for a soccer stadium?

I don't know if it's pc to ask his opinion on the debacle this site selection has turned out to be, but I'd sure like to hear his opinion on the seesaw exercise this has been. I'd also like to hear his opinion on the ti-cats position. Finally, I'd like to know if he's got a site preference himself.

I am suffering from morbid curiosity.. still listening.

CHML: a caller who thinks "expecially" is a word says "even if you make a bad decision, just make one and move ahead with it"

The next caller agrees.

-Can Hamilton 'transfer' it's HostCo money to Burlington. I believe this is the next part of the propaganda campaign. The Ti-Cats and their agents will push that Hamilton should do the noble thing and fall on our sword to give the HostCo funding for Aldershot, but only do that if the funding is secured.

-Is the re-birth of a stadium at IWS viable?

Sorry Ryan I must have been confused when Bill Kelly and Scott Thompson kept repeating the number. It's like I've been brainwashed or something :)

if you're listening to CHML you probably have.

@ RightSaidFred

I had an extended email exchange with Scott Thompson just before the election last autumn.

The man is simply incapable of comprehending some things. He's not 'stupid', just- Well, obdurate and intellectually lazy. Some of the stuff that comes out of his mouth is astounding. He sure does fit in with much of what I've heard on North American 'talk radio'.

What's all the sadder is that he feeds (and taps into) those Hamiltonians who are also intellectually lazy, who are looking more for comfort than comprehension, more damnation than dynamic discourse. (Actually, he reminds me of the forwarded emails I get, the factually-inaccurate but really animated right-wing soapbox stuff that always elicits an eye-roll. And a shake of the head.)

@mrjanitor Sign the petition, email your council. I hear more and more people for the Ivor Wynne option, but no one place where that support is obvious.

@mystoneycreek

after reading my exchanges with Thompson, my friend said to me "CHML is FoxNews, where is our CNBC on this issue?" At the time, I hadn't found RTH. Thank God I did!!

Corporate Sponsor quote:

Want to pack a 6,000+ stadium? Bring soccer to Hamilton. Trust me. You've never seen the value of sponsorship along with a massive fan base (local, regional, national, international) until you've seen soccer. Want to bring more affluence? Bring soccer. Want kids off the streets and engaged in amateur athletics? Bring soccer. Trust me, you will have major opportunities knocking at the door. Pan-Am is the ticket. The writing has been all over the WH wall for soccer. Along with other sports, lacrosse comes to mind. Now is the time to capture the WH wave. Be smart Hamilton, put the emotions aside and be smart.

Thanks Corporate Sponsor! Great thinking!!!

COME ON HAMILTONIANS! LET THE CITY COUNCILLORS HEAR OUR VOICE!!! BE UNITED TO SUPPORT A SCALABLE STADIUM AT BEAUTIFUL WEST HARBOUR FOR THE BENEFITS OF OUR YOUNG DIVERSITY GENERATIONS TO COME!!!

• I already sent email to Mayor Bob Bratina & City Councillors.

Comment edited by whitehorse on 2011-01-07 11:08:49

Ryan - this is probably too late but if you get this in time, please ask how much Hostco would contribute for a 6500 seat stadium, and how much they would expect Hamilton to contribute. I don't believe those figures have ever been officially stated.

AndreaC quote:

So looks like our last best chance at securing the provincial and federal funds (and building a real legacy for amateur sports in our community)is for Hamilton City Council to put forward a proposal for a small community stadium/athletics centre and velodrome on the West Harbour.

What does everyone say to a rally at City Hall ahead of the council meeting which is at 7pm on Wednesday, January 12th? Say everyone meets up at 6.30 and then packs council chambers afterwards?

Once everyone has agreed as to the logistics, I can post it as an event on this site...

Please! Please AndreaC, please organize a Rally as you stated above to show our support for a scalable stadium at West Harbour!!! We have to make the City Councillors HEAR OUR VOICE FOR THE BRIGHT FUTURE OF OUR YOUNG HAMILTONIANS & OUR BELOVED HAMILTON CITY !!!

Lawrence,

That was an excellent article. I swear I didn't read it before today! It's obvious not many on RTH agree but I obviously agree with you on what Balsam Ave. should become when the Ti-Cats leave.

@Ryan - I just want to say how impressed I am with the coverage Raise the Hammer is giving to this issue. The information revealed on this website vs. CHML or The Spec illustrates why new media is becoming the primary way so many people are getting their news.

You clearly revealed the truth that had been obscured - a smaller community stadium and velodrome on the WH are ours if our council would only submit this to HostCo. Incredible! I have decided the Spec is either inept or biased (CHML doesn't even need comment).

Thanks for working so hard to bring the truth to us.

Bottom line is, 20 years from now, what has more benefit to a kid born in Hamilton this year?
a)A stadium built in Burlington for the Ticats, where a ticket will cost north of $100.
b)A community facility at WH with velodrome, smaller stadium for soccer, pool?, etc, etc
The WH solution would encourage participation in sports, affordable entertainment and brownfield renewal. The Aldershot idea doesn't do anything for Hamilton and means that we're wasting the chance at free money. Demographically, the CFL is on the wane in southern Ontario, immigrants don't care about it, and football is expensive to participate in, and would be very expensive to attend in a new stadium. Soccer is cheap to participate in and much more affordable to attend if we had a USL team.

He's not 'stupid', just- Well, obdurate and intellectually lazy.

You're too kind, mystoneycreek. Being obdurate and intellectually lazy is the very definition of stupid AFAIC.

Demographically, the CFL is on the wane in southern Ontario...

The ticats own survey revealed that the average age of their customer base is 50. Their current 'business model', if you can even call it that, has at best a 10 year shelf life. Some 'legacy'.

MLS or USL-1 Soccer team for a WH stadium to compete and grow and expand after the Pan Am games are done is the best option for the city of Hamilton and it's downtown. The Ticats have attempted to highjack our money for our community and now the Bulldogs have joined with thier interests. If Hamilton wants to save face put a stadium at WH for the community. Soccer is big and MrYoung has acknowledged this. Mr Young has exposed himself and so has the CFL commish (which whom I am disgusted with so I won't say his name). The city will be here long after these two are gone. Talking about vision and such is great but vision isn't only in one direction.

Comment edited by cityfan on 2011-01-07 11:42:28

Thanks @mrjanitor. What I don't like about a Harbour scalable stadium is it's too west. 75 Balsam is central with better community access IMHO. Delta High School uses Ivor Wynne as their home field. Not sure where else they would play unless they head over to Montgomery Park over at the traffic circle? Still, I know for me, there was something very special about playing highschool ball at the home of the Tiger-Cats.

@Ty Webb

You hit the nail on the head with one exception. This is NOT FREE MONEY. It's our money. It's tax money. There are 3 levels of governement. There is only one level of taxpayer. This is why that this issue is SO VITALLY IMPORTANT to this community.

If we do not engage ourselves as citizens and exercise our rights to make it perfectly clear to our elected representatives about how we feel and what we want done in our community, for our community, WITH OUR MONEY, then it opens the door for carpet baggers, snake oil and monorail salesmen like Bob Young, Scott Mitchell and Angelo Paletta to hijack public monies for their own profit.

Now I must make it clear. I am an avowed capitalist. I have no problem with the fact that Bob Young wants to make money. I don't even have a problem with him partnering with a public project to help him be successful. But this process has become an abomination and an outright insult to the taxpayers of this city. It has been a blatant power play and exercise in private extortion of public money.

Enough is enough.

Comment edited by Shempatolla on 2011-01-07 12:08:19

I voted in the last municipal election but have never sent an email to my councilor. does anyone know Terry Whiteheads email or phone number? I'm steaming right now listening to Mr Thompson on CHML.

Thank you Ryan. I'm on it!

Whoa, whoa, whoa folks...I know things look dire, but let's not jump off the deep end and say we'll watch soccer!! Just save a lot of cash on franchise purchasing and invite people to pay $25 to watch 'the blades of grass vault upwards toward the sun as mystic breezes propel them into dance'.

LOL!!! (Sorry soccer enthusiasts -- couldn't resist!)

@highwater I think the age in and around 50 is the season ticket holder average. Which, makes sense given they are usually the heads of households and have the means to afford a few hundy of their discretionary income.

My impression at the stadium is that there's a pretty decent cross-section of demo's that you'd expect at a sporting event. Obviously, every marketeer would like to see a bigger bubble of younglings in there -- that 15-21 age group is particularly valuable but under-indexes for CFL ball in this area (likely, because there's a whole whack for them to choose from). But overall, I can't see the Ticat study to be shockingly different than a lot of other franchises. (The Raptors, as an example, would probably be lower -- but their circus-like/ uber cheezy gameday presentation coupled with ticket packages for pennies would contribute to that.)

@anonymous Yup, totally agree with you. What I was alluding to was the impressionable cohort where many life-opinions are based. And trust me (as one of those said marketeers) the 18-35 is where (in most image-based brands) you harvest what you planted. Some beer brands come to mind.

But yes, I would say I totally subscribe to what you and Professor Rosentraub are presenting here. This is why I'm of the belief that it's the Ticats, not the city or neighbours, who will be missing out by not choosing the West Harbour. (Edit -- provided the site could actually accommodate a stadium expandable for Grey Cups.) Personally, I think the areas potential may be impeded by a stadium -- simply because it seems like such a great place for residential/ commercial development. For a sports brand, you'd be able to weave yourself right into the fabric of a very exciting and positive part of the community.

That's an incredibly valuable opportunity when it comes to solidifying the attachment to a brand that relies so much on emotion.

Comment edited by slodrive on 2011-01-07 14:55:18

Wow, what a shambles. I've been watching this unfold in the spec and just recently found RTH. A private interest, namely Bob Young and the Ti-cats, are holding Hamilton taxpayers up for extortion. The other taxpayers here seem to get the idea. I was born and raised here in the hammer. I stopped supporting the cats a long time ago when several people and business' were screwed around by them back in the late 90's. I totally support the Rally Idea and plan on attending at 6:30 PM on the 12th. The west harbor may not be to everyone's liking. I believe though it is likely the best opportunity for building young people in amateur sports in this city to come along in the last 30 years. The people at RTH deserve a big thanks for their efforts to inform the citizens of this city about what is transpiring in our city. My thanks Ryan and RTH staff. And thanks for the other great articles as well, I'm slowly going through them and have found them very informative. Evelknewifie

Great job, Ryan. You could live 1000 lives and never see anything like this, again. Holy cow. Corporate sponsor nailed it.

Comment edited by kevin on 2011-01-07 17:53:02

Quote from Burlington Post “I really hope Hamilton figures out a way to have a Pan Am stadium in Hamilton, because it would save us all a lot of time and aggravation.” - Mayor Rick Goldring

As someone 18-35 bracket, I wouldn't bet money, buttons or paperclips that the Ti-Cats are going to make successful inroads marketing to my age group.

Undustrial,

I'm older but agreed. The Montreal Alouettes became cool again with 18-35 year olds when they left the cavernous Olympic Stadium to play at Perceval Stadium on scenic Mount Royal.