Raise the Hammer
What's with the grumpy Tunder Bay locals being down on their town?
By Ben Bull
Nov. 26, 2008
Greetings, Raise The Hammer!
Well, it's been a long time since I last sent you a postcard, but hey - what can I say? I've been a bit of a homebody lately. After all the excitement of New Glasgow and Scranton, I needed some time to cool my heels and savour the memories ... you know how it is.
But now I'm back on the road again. So where am I this time, you ask? Hawaii, Las Vegas, Madrid...? No - Thunder Bay!
It's a work trip, again, not that I wouldn't go to Thunder Bay by choice or anything, it's just that, well, I wouldn't go to Thunder Bay by choice.
I didn't know much about TB before I set off. I thought about planning a trip to Sleeping Giant Park, which was voted one of the seven wonders of Canada. But then a friend told me, "It's not the actual park that's a wonder...it's the view of it from Thunder Bay."
"Oh."
Perhaps it says something about your town, when the best part about the place is the view of someplace else...
Sleeping Giant Park (the peninsula looks like a Sleeping Giant - get it?)
I could find little else to recommend TB before heading out, so I decided to reserve judgment. But then I got on the plane and sat next to a lassie from TB, who was returning after 18 months away.
"I don't know what I was thinking," she told me, as we prepared for our descent. "Nobody moves back to Thunder Bay. They only leave."
"Oh," again.
My first impressions weren't great. I do have a soft spot for small towns with their three-gate airports (actually I think TB has five), single-lane roads, and quirky local characters, but it was clear to me after driving five minutes into town, that TB was just another sprawl/mall town. You know how it goes - roads, malls, roads malls, single home housing, roads, malls... I could have been in Mississauga (or Woodbridge or Scarborough, or London...).
As with any place I go, I was looking for the heart of the place - the downtown. I figured, after my chat on the plane, that this would be easy.
"There are three downtowns in Thunder Bay," the girlie had said.
"Great!" I replied. "Which one is the best?"
"None."
Oooh...
I drove to the waterfront after checking myself in, and, true to its promise, the Sleeping Giant really is a cool sight.
What if it didn't look like a Sleeping Giant? I wondered, as I stared at the impressive, imposing island. What if it looked more like a dwarf with an erection? That would really suck. Try getting that on Canada's list of seven wonders.
The B&B lady who gave me the tour (see! I told you the locals were friendly) told me the local council wanted to revitalize the waterfront area.
"They want to put up a hotel," she complained, "but what's wrong with it now?"
She had a point. The main waterfront is a pleasant enough marina with a few footpaths weaving this way and that, and not much else. There's a small cafe area somewhere in the middle - closed for the winter, alas (is it winter already? It is in Thunder Bay) - and that's about it.
But what else do you need? What is it with these city councils and their hard-on for overdeveloped waterfronts? Give me a promenade, a bit of nature and a place to sit and think, and that's all I need down by the lake.
The fundamental problem with Thunder Bay's waterfront area, if you ask me (and even if you don't), is its lack of people. There is very little housing downtown - not a condo in sight - not much in the way of business, and no transit system that you can see.
So you've got car-centricity, no density, a lack of mixed uses (hell, now that the paper mills are closing you don't even have primary uses). All in all, it's a death-knell for any area.
Speaking of the paper mills, they look pretty cool lining up along the lake. I noticed a dilapidated one as we pulled away. "That is so cool," I remarked to my B&B friend. "Tthey should give guided tours."
"They're blowing them up," she replied (thank God she didn't say "imploding). "I think it looks awful."
Why do people shun their history? I wonder. Why don't they value what makes them unique? What's shit to her is interesting to me. Shouldn't we cherish what sets us apart? (answer: yes).
OK I'm off to bed now. Got a big day at work tomorrow reviewing audit files. Man, I am so lucky! Trips to Thunder Bay and auditing for a living - it doesn't get any better than this.
Nighty night, Raise The Hammer.
Dear RTH,
Well I'm still here in Tunder Bay (I've decided it sounds better when you say it with an Irish accent ... don't ask).
Did I mention in my last postcard that there's no train station here? I hate flying, as you know, so I tried to book a train. But there's only one station, in Armstrong, two or three hours to the north. And the trip from Toronto takes, er, a day and a half. Where the hell are we, India?
So anyway, I drove to work this morning, and lo and behold, my office is in one of Tunder Bay's three town centres. You know this because there's a sign, right next to the 'Port Arthur Industrial Park' sign, saying, 'Town Centre'.
I figure if you need a sign telling you you're in the town centre, then it's not really a town centre.
So what's with the grumpy Tunder Bay locals being down on their town? First it was the airoplane girl. Last night it was the waitress at the bar. I went to Gargoyles for a bite, right before I tucked myself in, and after a lovely meal the waitress said to me, "I'm assuming you're here on business?"
"Why, yes I am," I replied, grateful for the chance to chat (I'd been reading the local paper so any distraction was a relief).
"Well, you would be," she shot right back. "I mean, why else would anyone come here?"
Bam! Oh dear, oh dear. Even in lowly Hamilton, folks don't go around ragging like that. It's just not right.
But it didn't end there. After wrapping up my work and heading back to the airport, I handed in my rental car. "I'm glad to be going home," I said to the car rental girl, just trying to be chatty (I do that a lot).
"Glad to be getting out of Thunder Bay you mean?" she corrected me.
What? No, I never said that...that's not what I meant at all. "No, no!" I protested, not wanting to cause offense. "Thunder Bay's not that bad."
"Ha!" she laughed, with a waft of her hand. "I hate the place. I wish I was getting on the plane with you."
I walked quickly away.
Aerial View of Tunder Bay - What's not to like?
Why does Thunder Bay cause such a reaction? I wonder. Admittedly, I can't imagine myself living here, but then again I couldn't imagine myself living in Hamilton, and I did for six and a half years.
It all made me wonder if it's time for the town to have an image makeover. I've thought up a few slogans just in case (Ryan, could you please send these on to the Tunder Bay tourist board? And while you're at it, tell them to change their name to Tunder Bay - it sounds way cooler with an Irish accent. Thanks).
Ben's Tunder Bay Tourist Slogans:
That last one has a nice ring to it, don't you think?
One last little anecdote: remember how I wrote about things that can only happen in Hamilton? Well get this, I've found something that can only happen in Tunder Bay.
I get to the newspaper stand at the airport, late at night, and slap a Toronto Star down on the counter. "Are you sure you want this paper?" says the girl. "it's yesterday's."
"Yesterday's?" I repeat, checking the date. Sure enough, they're selling yesterdays paper. "Why are you selling yesterday's news?"
"This is Thunder Bay," she replies, as if this were an explanation.
I suggest to her that with five or six flights inbound from Toronto every day, maybe they could get one of the pilots to ship them some papers...?
She stared at me blankly.
"You want to buy it or not?"
I asked her if it was free, given that it was old news after all.
"Of course it's not free!" she snapped, snatching the paper away.
Only in Tunder Bay.
Anyway, that's enough prattling, I'm about to pass through the security check (they only have one) ... well, as soon as they open it. (Don't you just love little airports?)
I'd better find a place to drop this off, because you know, it's probably going to take a few weeks to arrive, being that this is Tunder Bay and all, by which time I'll probably be, oh I don't know, savouring the delights of Cleveland, Sudbury, Detroit, Oshawa - there are just so, so many places to see!
I'm going to go check out the view from the airport before I leave. It's facing away from Tunder Bay so, you know, it should be pretty good.
Bye for now!
Did you actually read the article IRK? It was mostly about how people in Thunder Bay are down on there own city, not that the city is so bad. Funny even your offended comment basically sound really defensive about Thunder Bay. Inferiority complex maybe?
"I'm going to go check out the view from the airport before I leave. It's facing away from Tunder Bay so, you know, it should be pretty good."
Seems a little ironic that a guy who chooses to raise his family in downtown Toronto(where I was born and raised) is dumping on Thunder Bay. But I guess after living in lovely Hamilton he should be the expert on crapholes. To come to a place for a few days and come to so many conclusions seems a little elitist to me, but hey what do I know? Of course traffic jams, smog, over priced housing and gang shootings gives you a leg up on all us rednecks I suppose.
He never called you a "Redneck". You just called yourself that.
Your reading comprehension is lacking. What I took away from this article is the bizare similarities between Tunder Bay and The Hammer. People who grew up in each City absolutly loath everything about their hometown. Yet people like me (Grew up in the North, moved to Hamilton) and people like you (Grew up in Toronto, moved to Thunderbay) have grown to love our adopted Cities.
I'm saddened that you could not see this.
"Perhaps it says something about your town, when the best part about the place is the view of someplace else..."
"It's a work trip, again, not that I wouldn't go to Thunder Bay by choice or anything, it's just that, well, I wouldn't go to Thunder Bay by choice."
"My first impressions weren't great. I do have a soft spot for small towns with their three-gate airports (actually I think TB has five), single-lane roads, and quirky local characters, but it was clear to me after driving five minutes into town, that TB was just another sprawl/mall town. You know how it goes - roads, malls, roads malls, single home housing, roads, malls... I could have been in Mississauga (or Woodbridge or Scarborough, or London...)."
etc,etc......
A comparison you say? Maybe YOU should reread this blog and see how often this fellas negativity pops up. I guess I remember the feelings of how great it is in the center of the universe and how the rest of Canada was full of poor uneducated hicks. It's how us Southern Ontarioians entertain ourselves when were stuck in traffic for two hours on the 401. And come on, comparing Thunder Bay to Detroit, Clevland and Oshawa clearly shows this man has no clue.
wow....I'm scared to visit T.Bay after reading these comments.
Ben wasn't kidding. The people are downright negative and bitter.
Yikes.
Don't judge a whole city because of one anonymous troll on a random web page.
I'm not....but reading all of the random comments made to Ben while he was up there and now the one person on this site who is from there , you can't help but notice a trend. Lol.
"Perhaps it says something about your town, when the best part about the place is the view of someplace else..."
"It's a work trip, again, not that I wouldn't go to Thunder Bay by choice or anything, it's just that, well, I wouldn't go to Thunder Bay by choice."
"My first impressions weren't great. I do have a soft spot for small towns with their three-gate airports (actually I think TB has five), single-lane roads, and quirky local characters, but it was clear to me after driving five minutes into town, that TB was just another sprawl/mall town. You know how it goes - roads, malls, roads malls, single home housing, roads, malls... I could have been in Mississauga (or Woodbridge or Scarborough, or London...)."
etc,etc......
A comparison you say? Maybe YOU should reread this blog and see how often this fellas negativity pops up. I guess I remember the feelings of how great it is in the center of the universe and how the rest of Canada was full of poor uneducated hicks. It's how us Southern Ontarioians entertain ourselves when were stuck in traffic for two hours on the 401. And come on, comparing Thunder Bay to Detroit, Clevland and Oshawa clearly shows this man has no clue.
Hmm...where to start?!
IRK, it was not my intention to dump all over Thunder Bay. I don't think I'm being overy negative either. Let me see, I said the locals are friendly (friendlier than Toronto that's for sure), I said I liked the paper mills, the Sleeping Giant, the little airport...
Most of my negative comments came from the mouths of the locals I met.
Everything else was just a recollection of my observations from my short trip. I wrote what I saw(and heard). If you don't like it, by all means refute my observations on this page (constructively I hope). I'd love to hear some positive comments about TB.
Ben
PS As for your persecution complex, keep in mind that I spend most of my time on RTH ragging about Toronto (just follow the links under my name for the various peices I've written). You called TO the center of the universe, not me.
Thanks for the comments.
Ben
yea, come on let's give Ben a break.
After all he DID say that your airport has 5 gates, not 3.
I have only lived in Hamilton for some 3+ years. Still being a college student and all I have had the opportunity to have some pretty great jobs. My favourite job in Thunder Bay. I spend 10 weeks there in the summer. And while I now there is a great difference between Thunder Bay in the summer and winter, this town is unique.
If you stand in the main hall of Union Station in Toronto you won't find Thunder Bat as one of your destinations. However, you will find Port Arthura, and Fort William. Both places were found as fur trading places and were always two different towns. When the decision was made for them to become one town -Thunder Bay. A few things went wrong. The space in between the two towns was developed - badly. The two downtowns are connected by big box stores and a classic upper james style road that takes nothing that would remotely encourage community, human scale, or walkability into consideration.
The result is quite obvious two depleted downtowns, empty stores, low-income housing, and a lot of hidden poverty and addictions. However, T-Bay is full of potential and beauty. Especially the Fort William side appeals to me. Often considered the bad side of town it shows of a once thriving small town with beautiful architecture, and a gorgeous setting along lake Superior and Mount McKay (1000ft.) always overlooking the town. Thunder Bay is not that bad.
The biggest issues facing Thunder Bay are the changing demographics it has become a refuge for many natives who want to escape from some horrible conditions at certain reserves in Northern Ontario. And too many young people want to leave Thunder Bay. All the people I met who were actually studying in Thunder Bay and planned on staying there seemed to be in either health care, social services, or forestry. No business man, entrepreneur, or visionary seems it worthy to invest in Thunder Bay. It is a shame, because it is the most beautiful part of Ontario I have ever been - it is as their slogan suggests "Superior by Nature".
ps. The sight of the sleeping giant is tremendous, however, the actual park tops it. Too bad you didn't get the chance to get our there.
There are problems here just like every other city in Canada but if you scratch the surface a little deeper you will see all the positive initiatives taking place here. I have to agree that people here seem to be ragging on Thunder Bay more so then most places but they are entitled to due to the many mill closures etc. Plus property values have gone down while the rest of Canada has had a boom. But now the opposite is taking place. 8.5% rise in house prices, new medical school, waterfront development, $85,000,000 mall to be built, low unemployment, low vacancies, best income to home price ratio in the western hemisphere, etc..(Google and find much more) + surrounded by some of the most pristine widerness on the planet right beside the greatest of the great lakes, Lake Superior. Again, how can you compare this place to Detroit or Clevland?????
Spent 5 years in Thunder Bay and have got to agree with the article. I heard the "This is Thunder Bay..." excuse word for word, many times... Including for the Star being old news all the time... I actually contacted Star circulation once to ask what the problem was since the other out of town dailies arrived on time... It was only the Star that lagged a day behind... Looks like they haven't fixed the problem. Most of the locals wanted to leave too.
Not a bad place, but it's got its quirks. The indoor running track at the Canada Games complex has 3 sides. To run a full loop you got to the end of the straight, ran down a flight of stairs, across the pool deck and up a flight of stairs back onto the track... The main street that ran along the waterfront changed names something like six times from one end to the other (Hodder/Cumberland/Fort William Rd./Simpson/Water/Arthur) There were other strangely named streets such as "John Street Road" The local phone monopoly was run by the city. There is no Bell... Customer service was pretty bad and there were no options... Pretty much anything to do with the outdoors was very good while anything to do with modern society was lacking. Not counting the ultra high tech paleo-DNA lab and Silicon Graphics super computer that the university had...
Weather was nice in the summer and skiing was good in the winter too. Saw the norther lights... There are worse places to live...
There are a lot of very positive people in Thunder Bay. This article is very true, but attitudes are rapidly changing in Thunder Bay. Thunder Bay is going through a positive economic transition and has many new progressive leaders working to diversify Thunder Bay's social and economic landscape.
Check out Opportunity Thunder Bay on facebook or www.opportunity bay.com to see these changes.
The City doesn't just have multiple natural wonders, Kakabeka Falls, Sleeping Giant, Lake Superior, Mount McKay, Ouimet & Eagle Canyons. We are home to a growing film industry, and health research - knowledged based industry.
Check Thunder Bay out! you'll be surprised whats happening here.
*Correction!!*
Opportunity Thunder bay's website is www.opportunity thunder bay.com
There is only one way to settle the Hamilton vs Thunder Bay debate. Eugene Levy and Paul Shaffer in a Greco Roman wrestling match.
lived in tbay for two years and enjoyed it immensely. there's a lot of character in that town, though it does require some digging. in the end, there's no way i could have stayed more than a couple years. the isolation is pretty extreme - 6 hours from winnipeg, minneapolis; 7-8 hours from the sault and god knows how far from southern ontario. i'll always have a warm spot for the town though, and have returned whenever the opportunity arose.
NewsfeedsISSN: 1715-1554
Green Go at the Casbah - Friday, January 9, 2009, at The Casbah, 306 King St W, Hamilton.
Read More...
Transportation Energy Use, GHG Emissions and Suburban Superstores, by Ryan McGreal, published Jan. 6, 2009 in (1 comment)
Hamilton Grand Reception Draws a Crowd, by Trey Shaughnessy, published Jan. 6, 2009 in Revitalization (1 comment)
Why Special Treatment for Auto Industry?, by Ted Mitchell, published Dec. 31, 2008 in Economy (37 comments)
Peak Oil, Falling Oil Prices, and the Global Economic Crisis, by Ryan McGreal, published Dec. 20, 2008 in Economy (36 comments)
Portables for Education Centre, by Ryan McGreal, published Dec. 18, 2008 in Revitalization (13 comments)
Scott Stewart Moving to Burlington, by Ryan McGreal, published Dec. 17, 2008 in Politics (3 comments)
Cluster Bomb Treaty and the World's Unfinished Business, by Ramzy Baroud, published Dec. 15, 2008 in Geopolitics (3 comments)
No Accountability Without Access to Information, by Ryan McGreal, published Dec. 12, 2008 in Politics (3 comments)
Council: No Reconsideration of City Hall Plan, by Ryan McGreal, published Dec. 10, 2008 in Revitalization (7 comments)
Rae Withdraws, Ignatieff is Liberal Leader, by Ryan McGreal, published Dec. 9, 2008 in Politics - Federal (6 comments)
Last Chance for Limestone City Hall Fa#&231;ade, by RTH Staff, published Dec. 8, 2008 in Architecture (0 comments)
Harper: GG to Prorogue Parliament, by RTH Staff, published Dec. 4, 2008 in Politics - Federal (12 comments)
By IRK
Posted 11/27/2008 8:24:03 AM
HA HA HA. After spending 30 years in that smog filled hell hole called Toronto, Thunder bay is a breath of fresh air for me and my family. Funny to hear your critiques considering you spent six count em six years in the armpit of Canada. Oh well to each his own and really who actually reads your crappy blog anyways. For the record, I moved up here and absolutely love it and by no means would I ever return to that hazy craphole.
(Permalink)