Raise the Hammer

While 7 might be road related, they don't specify what the "repairs" will be AND they account for 34.5 of the just over 100 million dollars. I think in the interest of fairness, the breakdown should go like this:

1) Water treatment upgrades - $42 million 2) Extending Trinity Church Road - $10.5 million 3) New EMS training and op centre - $25 million 4) First Place renovations - $5 million 5) Road repairs - $24.5 million

What's more interesting is the councillors who are complaining about local road repairs being at the bottom of the list. I'd also like to see the 150 item list that is mentioned...

Frank, why not order those 1,3,5,2,4?

If we embraced the fair, user-pay aspect of conservatism, then roads could be funded exclusively through gas tax and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

What's more 'OMG, look at that!' is standing at the entrance to Summit park and soaking in all your sprawling grandeur. Let's see, you could go for a walk within the subdivision, or within the subdivision, or across Rymal to see eramosa karst, or see eramosa karst, or see even more eramosa karst!

which is nice, but the other destinations accessible by foot are...???

So who's wallets is this stimulating, exactly? The already overpaid City workers? They already had jobs going around fixing roads!

Why not help stimulate business that has been forced to cut jobs, so some of these unemployed -I think I read Hamilton's E.I. needs jumped 82% last month- can get their jobs back and start spending again!?!?

Again, this IS only 10 of the 150 projects, and I'd like to see the other 140, but still.

Trinity Church Rd Ext!?!?! So they're going to use this money to expropriate family homes just so that commuters can get to their new subdivision quicker? Altho I'm sure the City thinks we're stupid, as this 'Extension' is clearly just a hidden form of a RHVP Extension to the proposed Mid-Pen Hwy!

The full list can be found from this link....

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthre...

I may be a little cynical here, but doesn't any provincial or federal funding come with strings......the photo op.

What better photo opportunity than a new road!! Those guys love it.

Certainly a little different than what New-York are spending money on (see todays article by Jason).

BS, I never even thought of that. Trinity Church as the connection to the Mid Pen. Very interesting thought. Keep an eye open for more Mid Pen stuff coming down the pipe this summer.

Yes, Jason. If you look at a satelite image of that area on Google Maps, it's quite clear that it was planned to connect up to the Mid-Pen.

I have a feeling once the extension reaches Rymal, it will move east from -what will be known as- Old Trinity Church Rd so that it can be converted into an expressway once the Mid-Pen opens.

If there's any road that needs extending, it's Burlington St along the CN lines to the 403 via the Junction (aka the Perimeter Road). This would be a good excuse for 2-way conversion as it would ease the flow of traffic along the other ramps (York, Main & Main West) and would give the Main Street Expy lovers an alternative to a slower, two-way Main.

That's a great idea BS, Burlington St. already looks like an expressway anyway and extending it would definitely take the pressure off the other routes, especially if the city were to convert Main to 2 ways.

I'm not a fan of the perimeter road at all. You can still see the land that was expropriated by the city along Strachan, just north of the CN tracks. Thankfully, it's being turned into a greenway, with a cycling/walking path that will link north end neighbourhoods, the General Hospital, Jackie Washington Park to Bayfront Park. A freeway through there would have devastating effects on the neighbourhood. Not to mention, cities like Boston and Portland that cut off neighbourhoods or downtowns from their waterfronts with freeways have since spent billions to get rid of those roads and bring back the greenspace/waterfront access.

Toronto keeps saying it wants to, but never will. We should be thankful that we didn't go down that ill-fated road in the 50's and 60's. Our North End and Harbourfront neighbourhoods are some of the most urban,scenic neighbourhoods in southern Ontario. Plus, we saved ourselves the hundreds of millions in construction, and then demolition of a highway.

To be fair, Jason, the north end is already seperated by the CN tracks (and several bridges). There is more than enough room in that depression (where the CN lines are currently) to build a Burlignton St Extension, perhaps connecting to the 403 in a below-grade fashion around the junction as to not disturb the canal or the waterfront trail.

I'm sure this extension wouldn't disconnect the north-end from Downtown anymore than it already is, again, due to the tracks. In fact, I'm quite sure the benefits of two-way Main (and possibly King), along with the A-Line in the North End area would far outweigh any loss of a park that runs right beside train tracks.

Also, it would be a benefit to having a stadium right along it's route, so the suburban "no easy highway access" claim could be dismissed.

I live downtown, frequent the north end (well, Bayfront Parks) and I don't see this as a problem so much as a solution to the two-way conversion squelchers. It's all about give-and-take; everyone wins!

everyone wins!

Except the poor schlubs in the North End who never catch a break anyway, so no harm done!

Seriously though, I cannot believe anyone is suggesting an inner city expressway at the dawn of the 21st century. We've known for at least 4 decades the devastating effects they have on neighbourhoods. For the love of God, drop this horrendous idea.

Dufferin Construction Stimulus Package

No No, Ryan.
You see, the RHVP was only Phase 1... the City forgot to mention that when they started building it.
Phase 2 is the Trinity Church Rd Extension, then
Phase 3 is the Mid-Pen Highway, THEN
Phase 4 is more housing (that's houses, not condo buildings or mix-use of any sort)
THEN business might be attracted to the area!

See, you have to look at the whole picture... then, and only then, will everything make sense (ok ok, it really makes no sense... but did we forget which City we call home!?)

I still don't understand why so many people would be against a below-grade Burlington St Extension (NOT a Linc or RHVP'esq Expy) when it would clearly be the only way THIS City would convert Main & King to two-way... at least at this point in time. I'd rather see two-way Main/King by 2015 than by 2030 when people with true vision and concern for Hamilton come into power.

Keep Nicholas Kevlahan's Transportation Summit article in mind; although the City has all the right ideas, they're still practising their old habits and will continue to do so for years and years and years. So although they like two-way Main/King IN THEORY, they're scared away from the idea due to their obsession with keeping traffic moving? ...A Burlington Street Extension as the best option.

Great discussion so far. A couple of more points from me:

1. We do have a ring road now. Pull out a map of the city and it's easy to spot - 403/QEW/Red Hill/Linc.
2. The plan for perimeter road was always to run it along Strachan. unless they were to widen the below-grade area near the tracks, there's no way a highway would fit there. Regardless, we don't need it. Our entire ring system can be driven in about 25 minutes. There is absolutely no reason that any trucks heading to the NE part of the city need to use Main, King or York. If they're coming from Guelph, they can use the Skyway/Burlington St/Red Hill. If they're coming from Toronto, same thing. If they're coming from Buffalo, Red Hill/Burlington St If they're coming from Detroit, Linc/Red Hill. If they're coming from Nanticoke, Linc/Red Hill.

It's so asinine that we spend all this money on these roads, yet still allow trucks to fly down city streets like Cannon, York, King and Main. These are supposed to be vibrant, commercial/residential city streets. We have the truck freeways now. Get them to start using them!

I notice far less through truck traffic on Centennial now. I wish the same could be said for your downtown streets.

Steeltown I'm looking for the full 150 item list.

Next we need to circle the airport with highways.

Jeez since we built that airport highway access from the 403 we've been trying to fight off the businesses that want to locate here.

BS, it's not someone's wallet it's the economy it's supposed to stimulate... As for the Mid-Pen highway, while existing administrations might want it, I think you'll find that it's no where near real planning stages. I also don't think it'll happen because as far as I can tell, public pressure is mounting against it.

Off we go, taking a big leak just like Peter George warned us not to. So predictable.

huh?

Frank, how are We supposed to stimulate the economy (ie shop, buy condos, Vespas, etc) if the Government doesn't stimulate our wallets by creating jobs for us (well those who lost their jobs)? That's what I meant by "stimulating our wallets".

And Jason is making reference to a quote by McMaster University President, and local Grump, Peter George who suggested a couple months ago that the City use Stimulus Package dollars properly rather than "pissing it away on sewers and pot holes" ...or something along those lines.