Raise the Hammer

Someone needs to help me out. I'm not a garbage fanatic who spends hours a week sorting everything. In fact I spend no extra time now than I used to before the green bins came along. Yet, our family of 5 produces a completely full green bin and two full blue boxes every week and half a can of garbage. With no effort. What am I missing??
The extent of my effort is literally opening a green lid instead of grey lid, and tossing recyclables into blue bins instead of the grey one. That's it.
I can't help but think city council is considering making this change simply to appease those too lazy to toss stuff in the right bin, again, unless I'm missing something. The last thing I want is bi-weekly pickup. My backyard would turn into a mini-transfer station with 2 green bins and a whack load of blue boxes.

sadly, some people just can't be bothered to try...

Nice work, Larry. Would much rather see the $2M go towards greater education about our waste streams (i.e. what stuff goes in what bin) and promotion of the city's diversion goals (we were at 49% in 2010, but have a ways to go to reach the 65% goal set by Council).

Although I believe a 1 container(not one bag BTW) limit should be easy to achieve for most its clear that some are so inherently lazy that its not achievable by all. IMO what the city needs to do is figure out a way to charge a reasonable amount for extra pickup that reflects both the extra costs these people are inflicting on the reasonable but also reflects the notion that the city is actually providing the service we are paying for. For example, with the minimum charge at the transfer station set so high it acts as a deterrent for those who are actually trying to meet the limit but need to dispose of 1 or 2 extra containers from time to time. If we are going to a bi-weekly pickup going beyond 3 containers per pickup will increase the allowable amount from what was just passed. Do we really need to do this????? Most people are getting it done with one container and those who aren't are generally coming close judging by the stats provided by the city. Surely 6 containers has to be seen as a total surrender to the 5% of people who will STILL choose to ignore all rules. More importantly, such a large limit will most likely see a return of huge amounts of recyclable and compostable material going back into the landfill stream as most people are inherently lazy and its easier not to separate if its really not required. $1M is way out of line to monitor and enforce illegal dumping but it will still be required as any cleanup effort of the last 30 years illustrates. The illegal dumping preceded the one bag limit and its not going to miraculously disappear by allowing almost unlimited volumes of acceptable trash because unacceptable curbside trash still exists and will still find its way into our alleys parks and ravines

Well done, Larry. A good clear voice...hopefully the right people listen.

Why is this such a big deal? Why do people make 'diversion' such an issue?

Mostly because...as with voting and with personal fitness and finance...people don't care. They aren't motivated.

They sure were during the last century's two World Wars. When individuals and communities did what needed to be done...even if the actual war effort was thousands of miles away. Some people -apparently- see the 'sacrifice' of having to process their waste as being too great.

But as someone pointed out recently, we've lost not only a sense of 'community', but the 'entitlement' mindset has become the default setting. Except it's not just entitlement in terms of what people feel they 'deserve', it's also entitlement in terms of what they should have their time impinged by. Or not, as the case may be.

It doesn't help that this initiative comes from 'government', and people aren't exactly willing to be told what they should and shouldn't do, how they should and shouldn't regard their own waste.

'What goes around, comes around.'

Recycling and sorting garbabge is a complete waste of time. Resources can be used for more productive purposes. If recycling is so valuable why is nobody offering to pay me cash for my old newspapers and pop cans?

People need a grad degree to understand all these different garbage rules. Is it any wonder that people are dumping garbage? Hamilton has many places where we can hide trash.

Are you f'ing kidding me? You can get an education and take the go train to a presumably high paying job in Toronto but you can't learn what goes in what bin? Kids know that by 3rd grade now. People who think recycling is hard should drive dump trucks to Michigan every day to dispose of their city's trash, then tell us how hard it is to put paper in one bin and plastic in the other.

Recycling and sorting garbabge (sic) is a complete waste of time.

OK. I'll play along; what would this enormous accumulation of time be otherwise used for? (And how much are we talking about? On both sides of the equation.)

Resources can be used for more productive purposes.

Such as...?

If recycling is so valuable why is nobody offering to pay me cash for my old newspapers and pop cans?

Clearly we're using a different definition of 'valuable'.

People need a grad degree to understand all these different garbage rules.

LOL Well...maybe that's how it looks to you. I'd be curious to see a short film about your life. Your habits, your capabilities...

Is it any wonder that people are dumping garbage?

No. It's not. These sorts of people are found everywhere, in every city in every culture. They're asshats. They just don't care. (And their minor-league cousins can be seen in smokers, who do the same thing on a micro-scale when they flick a butt to dispose of it.)

People aren't dumping garbage because their brains are fried from trying to figure how how to process their garbage. They're dumping because they're asshats. Period.

Hamilton has many places where we can hide trash.

Thanks for confirming that you're one of those asshats.

(And yes Ryan; I fed the troll...)

http://townhallshamilton.blogspot.com/20...

Comment edited by mystoneycreek on 2012-01-16 10:32:46

I support your asshat theory.

"what would this enormous accumulation of time be otherwise used for? (And how much are we talking about? On both sides of the equation.)"

Working in business or around the house. Spending time with kids etc. Assume 30min per week per household, week after week, year after year and it adds up. Kind of like the productivity losses of sitting in traffic.

"Resources can be used for more productive purposes.
Such as...?"

How much time and money is spend on recycling? We can use that money to fix our roads, sweep our streets, lower taxes etc etc.

"If recycling is so valuable why is nobody offering to pay me cash for my old newspapers and pop cans?
Clearly we're using a different definition of 'valuable'."

Not sure what your definition of value is but somebody is paying to process all this recycled goods. If there is a market for cans and old newspapers then way is someone not offering to pay me for them, kind of like the "we buy you used gold" folks? They will pay you for your used gold because there is a market for it.

"LOL Well...maybe that's how it looks to you. I'd be curious to see a short film about your life. Your habits, your capabilities..."

I'm blushing.


"Is it any wonder that people are dumping garbage?
No. It's not. These sorts of people are found everywhere, in every city in every culture. They're asshats."

Not sure what an asshat is. In any event, of coarse people dump garbage. The issue is that all the restrictions are causing people to dump MORE garbage
"People aren't dumping garbage because their brains are fried from trying to figure how how to process their garbage. They're dumping because they're asshats. Period."
"Hamilton has many places where we can hide trash.
Thanks for confirming that you're one of those asshats"

Hamilton has many green spaces (conserv areas, escarpment) where few tread and garbage can easily be dumped. Can't you come up with a better reason than "they're asshats".

Since you insulted me I will insult you.
I'm guessing you work at MIT, NASA, or some other high-powered research institute because the analytical zeal you provide to your reply leaves me just short-of breath.

Hamilton has many green spaces (conserv areas, escarpment) where few tread and garbage can easily be dumped.

Really? You really believe that's an option?

If so, I'm surprised you didn't simply suggest we tow it out and sink it in Lake Ontario.

C'mon Capitalist, seriously?

You can't tell me you don't know that there is obviously a market for recyclables, because that's precisely what Stewardship Ontario does: collects recyclables and sell them to scrappers and companies that reprocess them.

Are you all huffy because the Province collects and re-invests the $$, and no one comes right to your door to cut you a personal cheque for all your hard blue box work?

It's true. Although the variable supply/demand dynamic can give rise to unintentional surpluses, such as the 400 tonnes of plastic warehoused at Plastimet in the summer of 1997.

eg:

"The recycling crisis is the latest in a host of financial problems that began earlier this year with a meltdown in the U.S. housing market and banking sector. Now, as people around the world curb their spending, manufacturers react by curtailing production, which means there is less demand for recycled material, leading to a drop in value of recycled goods.

For example, aluminum was selling in the Toronto area in July for $1.17 per pound. Currently it’s selling for 35 cents a pound. Newsprint was selling in the Toronto area in July for $180 per metric ton and actually hit zero at one point this month.

Similarly, the plastic used to make water bottles sold for 19 cents a pound in July, but today is selling for only a cent a pound."


http://www.owensoundsuntimes.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1316330&archive=true

Basically you are saying that all of this is for 10 minutes. I really don't buy into any of your excuses that 10 minutes is too much to ask to help save the city millions of taxpayer money

I do not understand Council's stand on garbage at all. On a normal week you don't even have to try to meet the 1 bag limit - I am a half assed recycler / green bin user at best, with a family of 4, 2 kids in diapers and a dog - and we would be hard pressed to use more than 1 bag every 2 weeks.

The problem is when I clean out the basement or garage and have a few extra bags and some random junk to get rid of. I find myself stockpiling my junk for weeks at the side of my house until I think I have more than 100 kg.

Unless its garden soil (not supposed to go in the green bin or bags - has to go into the garbage) - a few bins of garden soil ends up costing $50 or more to get rid of - and I have been seriously tempted to just dump it off the side of the escarpment on more than one occasion.

I suspect that the transfer fee structure is the problem. That and the elimination of bulk item pickup.

Comment edited by Simon on 2012-01-16 11:11:25

Not to worry, adding 12 extra bags per household per year actually improves our diversion rate!

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/655265--talking-trash-at-city-hall

Back at the dawn of the blue box program I told my grandfather that he should start putting his cans into a recycling bin rather than into the garbage.

He told me if they didn't want him to put cans into the garbage, then they should stop selling things that come in cans.

Lets not fool ourselves into thinking recycling is the solution to garbage. And I do resent the time I spend sorting my trash as Mr Burns puts it "like a raccoon". I also resent the guilt that comes from years of "education" when I toss a plastic tub of 8 month old yogurt into the garbage.

I also resent the guilt that comes from years of "education" when I toss a plastic tub of 8 month old yogurt into the garbage.

fist-bump.

Sometimes, there's no way I'm opening that.

God knows I've done it too, but I don't 'resent' the guilt that comes with it. I own the guilt because I know I am consciously choosing to do the wrong thing because I'm too lazy/squeamish to take the few extra minutes required to do the right thing. I don't understand the mentality of blaming someone else for making you feel bad when you've knowingly made the less than optimal choice.

Comment edited by highwater on 2012-01-17 11:15:56

We can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good (or the better). Recycling may be the 3rd R but it's better to melt a can down and make another can than to throw it in a landfill.

Aluminum is a very energy-intensive material. There's no doubt that it's quite valuable in any serious weight (scrounging and selling scrap metals is a major industry in this town). The difference between recycling an aluminum can and producing a fresh one is roughly the equal of filling it with gasoline meaning that you could drive 20+km in most small/medium cars just to recycle that one can and still save energy. So no, this is certainly not pointless.

We need to stop treating garbage collection like some sort of human right. It's an enormous public expense in terms of land, money and resources, the main purpose of which is to re-bury mountains of valuable resources which took far larger amounts of energy to extract. It would be hard to beat this kind of inefficiency without regularly bombing ourselves.

Your last paragraph is simply perfect.

imho, the big thing the city is missing is a way to pay to go over the limit. Some kind of big stamp or special bag we can buy.

Because after cleaning out the garage or something, the last thing I want to do is take a trip to the dump for 4 or 5 garbage bags.

I will never green bin. I tried it, got mice, it's gross, my house smelled like maggots whenever I opened the door. Animals tipped over the outside green bin every night for their feeding frenzy, see not everyone has a garage in Hamilton. Perhaps every new home built in Hamilton should be mandated to have a garage for waste storage. Since lefties love regulations, especially against home builders, so lets have a green bin regulation.

The truth is the Green Bin stuff is not the bad stuff for the landfills and the enviro, let it rot in a landfill, if it's good enough to rot in a composter in my yard.

The problem is with the; sofas, TVs, appliances, computers, screen doors, drywall, that's where we are having a problem. What the heck do I do with my microwave oven every 5 years, a light fixture that I replaced, one out of 5 major kitchen appliance goes garbage every 18 months, I bought a new living room set of furniture, this is the crap that fills landfills. Not the leftover Kraft Dinner.

My cat now has become an outside cat. The natural world is his cat box now, I'm saving on cat litter waste already. I should get green points for that. His crap is not going into my garbage anymore it's going onto the neighbourhood lawns and shrubbery. That's green. I'm thinking I might try to save on water flushes too, by doing the same. That's how environmental I am.

I attempted to put my greenbin in my blue box but the recyclers failed to see the humour. They slapped my blue bin with a "Sorry" sticker, apparently the Green Bins are made of non-recyclable plastic... so I drove my SUV to Upper Ottawa and dumped my green bin in the trash, along with left-over siding, closet doors, bins of plastering mud, tree-branches, christmas tree and ornament crap, probably about 1000 lbs of trash. If I left this crap in my house, I guess that would make me green, it's still garbage, whether it's in our garages, basements, along a storm ditch or in the sacred Hamilton landfills. Garbage is still garbage no matter where it is.

Most of the things you described are things that can be recycled for free at the transfer station. Some stuff is trash, but a lot of that stuff is free to drop off if you have a car. The unfairness is to people who don't drive. Some stuff just won't get picked up.