Raise the Hammer

does Lloyd Ferguson own the property? This is sick.

I didn't think it could get any worse than the dull, flat, mismatched, badly installed concrete slabs. There truly are no words. On time, on budget, and in a ditch. This is Ferguson's legacy.

Unbelievable. What a disgrace.

I can't even comment... just at a loss...

We'll probably find out that the black marble pillars from the Connaught lobby are in someone's Ancaster house too.

Have people seen these results of a poll:

http://www.thehamiltonian.net/2010/04/re...

I'm an "Overseas Hamiltonian" and let me tell you, if Ferguson becomes mayor, I'll never return home. Such a bloody shame!

@grassroots

I'm sure there is a huge sample bias in that survey, I highly doubt it's reflective of Hamiltonian's as a whole.

What a waste! Who's bright idea was this? Disgusting. Did they at all inform the public about this move? When was that discussed? Maybe it would have been nice if they came to their constituents and asked if they wanted to take part in some form of "RE-USE" program with the marble... WOW!!! I'm floored. Look what they replace it with -- CEMENT! A symbol of a bunker full of bumbling fools.

On a positive note, it makes for great erosion control. The downstream flora and fauna will benefit from this. It has been returned to the earth to make a positive contribution. It is what it is. Lets try to be positive for once..Hamiltonians.

Ok. I'll be positive and assume your comment is well-disguised snark.

I'm just saying that it rubs salt in the wounds of all Hamiltonians who have felt disgusted with the scandalous decisions made by this council - especially, but not limited to, the renovations of City Hall.

What always struck me about this whole debacle is that Lloyd is the alumni of a big construction company that is owned by a CEMENT company. I mean maybe I'm super naive in thinking there isn't a conflict of interest here. Or like this is all above board and contracted to somebody else? Either way it's dicey, partisan and as if he's running the whole show with no input from council and their constituents (us). Also there is word of a Country Style in the lobby! I guess that location in City Mall basement was a smart move...

*Sigh*

Hamilton.

I mean, it's better that it's put to use than just put into landfill, I guess - but it feels like committing an indignity to a corpse. Or like deciding to feed your dead dog to your cat rather than let it go to waste.

At least we know where to go to get a piece.

Where exactly is this? ...maybe i can snatch a piece in the middle of the night, since i never managed to grab one when they sat in piles at city hall. would be nice to hold a small piece of history. i was willing to "purchase" a slab back when there was the idea to raise funds for limestone.............

JM

The replacement of marble with concrete versus the alternative - new marble or limestone - is a travesty. And it's a shock to see something that was once so beautiful end up in the situation illustrated.

But to be fair, our shock shouldn't be new as we've known for a long time it was destined for such a use. Once the contracts were awarded the City no longer owned the marble, http://thespec.com/article/537939, and the owner (Greenspoon) could do whatever it wanted.

call me naive, but when i read this poster, i thought it was promoting the fact that the marble was reused.

what were the other options to do with this? i am happy its not in a landfill! and that someone has found a new use for something that would probably otherwise just be thrown away in a dumpster.

the problem here was the decisions that were made during the planning of buiding a new building. not what they have chosen to do with the waste of the old one...

Someone got a sweet deal, I wonder who it is, and who they know? All those chunks of history to construct a drainage ditch. How fitting and apt. RIP.

i was willing to "purchase" a slab back when there was the idea to raise funds for limestone.............

turns out we didn't even need to raise funds for limestone. The city has an extra $4 million sitting there from this project that could have been used for both limestone AND stainless steel.
Instead it's being saved for a more noble purpose - a kickback.

Don't really get what the hubbub is all about. The marble could not be reused on the building. Be happy another use was found for it because otherwise its just garbage.

I agree with Jason.

Personally, I'm happy to pay the budgeted amount on any project, as long as the budget is affordable and accurate. To offer a 'bonus' to contractors for coming in under budget flies in the face of setting accurate budgets, and getting ones 'money's worth' on the project.

The City Hall reno is one more debacle, in a long list of debacles, from representatives both City Staff and Council, who continue to do a dis-service to Hamilton residents and taxpayers.

This is the same marble that was used for cladding the First Canadian Place building in Toronto. Remember falling panels from 50 stories above? Warping, deflecting and a poorly designed anchoring system would have lead to the same issues at city hall. I'd say the marble is where it belongs; I only wish the rest of our overpriced eye sore met the same fate.

Just out of curiosity, what would y'all have prefered to be done with the marble instead?

yawh, bigger issues on hand in the hammer, Thats the problem with everyone in the city. All everyone does is dwell on the past, Whine and complain.

Has anyone figured out who owns the property this is on?

It's not dwelling on the past and it's not what we could've or would've done. This is all about the optics of how we do things in this city. Backwards, backwater and plain ugly. The City Hall reno has been bad, bad, bad since the beginning.

So what do you suggest then Dave Kuruc. If you're not dwelling on the past, give us some suggestions on how we can fix this. I think it's the decision makers that need to change. I'm only one vote though.

you know what? the average Hamiltonian doesn't care about the city hall reno. what's more - they don't care that it's concrete instead of marble. you know why? because it doesn't really matter at the end of the day. the concrete looks fine. would marble or limestone look better? yes. do we have money to spend on marble or limestone? no. why in the world are people still whining and complaining about this?

Is it really 'dwelling on the past'? The marble just turned up, today. The new building isn't even opened yet. It's not like a complaint about some non-event a decade ago.
Besides which, last I checked 'learning from your mistakes' wasn't pejorative. Human development is based entirely on dwelling on the past and using that experience in an iterative decision process. Forget people, all sentient animals do that.
It's like these idiots at the tea party rallies calling people 'professor' as an insult.

no wonder this city never advances when there actual taxpaying citizens who don't mind looking like small town hicks thanks to our representatives. We get what we we deserve in this town.

C'mon JonC, you need to stop dwelling in the present and whining. The future's where it's at baby!

It’s done. Get over it. Lets move on to something that is important.

According to Google Maps "Book Rd' is rather close to "Ferguson Rd".

Ah the Spectator, yesterday's news tomorrow:

http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/753608

So no corruption, just complete ineptitude

told he could have the stone for free, as long as he trucked it out himself.

Over two days, he transported 32 loads of marble in a 200-tonne dump truck. There's still plenty of marble left over -- Miranda intends to use it for a pond, a waterfall and other landscaping on his property.

The remainder was disposed of by the demolition company, Greenspoon Specialty Contracting. They passed it on to a fill site which likely used it in concrete

Miranda... said he doesn't know why the city didn't put the marble to use, even in its own drainage ditches.

Hamilton - City of white marble waterfalls

you know what? the average Hamiltonian doesn't care about the city hall reno. what's more - they don't care that it's concrete instead of marble. you know why? because it doesn't really matter at the end of the day. the concrete looks fine.

Grab a picture of city hall before the reno and go down there and compare it with what's there now. I'm no engineer or contractor, but it is EMBARRASSING. Not even close to looking fine.

do we have money to spend on marble or limestone? no.

Yes, we do have the money. The project is $4 million under budget. Limestone AND a stainless steel exterior trim would have cost $3.5 million. We'd still be $500,000 under budget and with a building we can be proud of had the right decision been made.

I wish the councillor in charge would have put the same effort into this building project as he has blocking pink flamingo websites online.

I love how the Spec acts like they broke the story by asking the guy for a comment. Meanwhile the guy trucked away the stuff last summer and The Spec doesn't know about it until two days after it's on RTH. Nice job Graham.

Another hole in the story is what strikes me as an incredible lost opportunity, even when it was rubble.

To wit: "The remainder was disposed of by the demolition company, Greenspoon Specialty Contracting. They passed it on to a fill site which likely used it in concrete, said Geoff Hall, a senior project manager at Greenspoon."

Which seems to suggest that it was used to make terrazzo. Maybe the shattered fragments were unsuitable for marble cladding, but even its most busted-down state, it remained "gold-veined Cherokee marble."

Terrazzo, which most people will be familiar with from its use in public school and other institutional flooring over the years, is one of the oldest examples of sustainable building that I can think of -- it's recycling old building materials for use in flooring and countertops. With minimal care, it basically lasts for a lifetime. Case in point: any of the dozens of established-looking shop doorways throughout the city that were laid in mid-century and still look great.

One reason more people don't use terrazzo these days is that it's expensive. The reason for this is both the skilled labour that goes into laying the surface and the material that is mixed with the concrete/cement/resin binder. Terrazzo is often about 3/4 marble aggregate, so it can run you $50-100 a square foot.

And I can't even begin to figure how much terrazzo you could generate using 640 tonnes of free marble.

Just in case people want to know the correct name of the marble ,

It NOT CHEROKEE WHITE .it is gold veined GEORGIAN WHITE ......


You make a fuss about it , but you don't even know its real name ... ironic and tragic.

That's my property. You should see my polished marble floors!

xyz: "It NOT CHEROKEE WHITE .it is gold veined GEORGIAN WHITE ......You make a fuss about it , but you don't even know its real name ... ironic and tragic."

I was quoting verbatim from the second paragraph of today's Spec story. The story at top may well have been quoting verbatim from the second paragraph in a Spec story from late March: http://www.thespec.com/article/537935

These descriptions are backed up by a story in Time Magazine Nov 21, 1960 edition, when the author writes: "When Roscoe ordered city hall's façade built out of Cherokee white marble imported from Georgia, local limestone dealers got the city hall committee to cancel the order."

The distinction is arguably moot. Cherokee White marble is quarried in Georgia, and can accurately be described as Georgian White marble, though the inverse does not necessarily hold true.

Bedrock Twist, a great point about the terrazzo. This thing is one big botch job no matter how you slice it. another classic Hamilton project.
Hopefully the concrete slabs start falling off sooner than later so we can hire that dude with the crowbar to go to town on them and perhaps city council will fix their mistake and spend the couple million bucks on limestone and lead by example when it comes to maintaining a heritage property. I wish we had a Donald Trump in this city. Someone who puts their money where there mouth is and donates to civic projects in order to see them done properly.

Under budget = over quoted = kick back

Property is on the North East corner of Book and Southcote. Cycled by it couple nights back.

Your "elite" tax dollars would be less if we had a better downtown, don't comment if you are clueless please.

Well, if we must be honest there are more activists downtown, then anywhere else in the city. Maybe the people downtown need a rallying song

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOqk_q4NL...

^Hi Lloyd!