Raise the Hammer

I agree. He's clearly not a nice person, yet he is investing in our city with the projects that he is involved with. But, if not him, then who?

But, if not him, then who?

Steve Kulakowsky at Core Urban.

Jeff Paikin and Joe Giacomodonato at New Horizon Homes.

Doug McCurley, Bill Curran, and the others who have partnered on various downtown developments.

Heck, I'd far rather see the money go to Darko!

The list of worthier candidates is, in my opinion, probably in the order of around 7 billion, i.e. approximately the population of the planet.

And if Dennis doesn't want to sell to anyone? Just let it rot?

I see. So the $1.2m is a ransom then. We have to pay up or he'll let it rot. Nice. Why should the taxpayers feel obligated to reward this kind of blackmail?

The grant is for the betterment of the city, not for the betterment of an individual. Convicted criminal, yes, but he'd paid his dues. Should the penalties have been harsher for such crimes? I think so.

But personally, I'd much rather see the city convert King and Main back to slower two way traffic, than worry about the likes of DV getting grants and loans, that are their to better the city.

This is a new low for RTH.

What's your alternative, Adrian? Let a building in our core crumble because of a six year old charge? Force all criminals to sell their property? Forever refuse loans for anyone?

I'm angry.

You know what makes me angry? Ad hominem attacks.

If you think about how council handles black & white decisions, I fear that they wouldn't even know how to handle something like this. As I think about it more, I feel the relevance of this article. I don't think it's a new low, it's just something you don't get to see from most outlets - an opinion rooted with concerns. Adrian is a business owner and like many business owners in Hamilton, he probably struggles with the city on pretty common subjects - so to hear a sex offender is being handed cash probably bites a little. Sometimes it seems like us who play fair, lay down the groundwork for blowhards to benefit from - and the city does nothing to celebrate its hardworking catalysts.

Comment edited by ntomkin on 2012-05-04 08:34:38

He's a rapist!

i agree - this has absolutely no connection to the subject matter of the loan/grant. this is a "business deal" plain and simple.

i look forward to seeing life again at the corner of king and hess. let the man do his job. as much as people are giving the vranich's greif for their "work ethic", they are (one of) the only ones doing something in the core right now... and a good chunk of it to.

hold your criticism until the work is done!

Is it your opinion (and mrgrande, this is a question for you too) that the criminal history, moral character, and past behaviour of people should not factor into whether or not taxpayers give them large sums of money?

That is not a rhetorical question - I am genuinely interested in knowing your thoughts on the matter.

I think with regards to Vranich you have every right to be upset. My worry is, if we're not helping people on the basis of previous criminal/poor taste history, we might just further alienate those who actually have turned a new leaf.

While I haven't done anything near as bad as Vranich, I shudder at the thought of being held back because of how I used to be, having learned to be a better person.

Comment edited by ntomkin on 2012-05-03 12:11:33

Past behaviour should, regarding similar business decisions.

Moral character should not. Why? Because where do you draw the line?

Moral character should not. Why? Because where do you draw the line?

We're not talking about someone who cheated on his wife, here. We are talking about someone who has been convicted of sexual assault. I have no problem drawing the line at people who have committed violent crimes.

Talking about his crime as though it were some kind of moral peccadillo trivializes the true nature of sexual assault.

Ok, let's say for arguments sake the city denies him the loan and the grant based on his convictions.

Does he have a legal right to apply for the loan and grant as does any other property owner? Can the city give or take away that right?

What legal criteria can the city apply to the loans and grants qualifications for property improvement?

Does he have cause to sue the city?

I dunno.

Comment edited by George on 2012-05-03 15:57:25

How is this even allowed and how are people not outraged by this? "Paid his dues", "betterment of the city"? Seriously? I wonder how the victims feel? They will live the rest of their lives with the impact of what they experienced and yet we are supposed to forget that.

What kind of message does this send to people?

Sexual assault is a CRIME. But I guess from the City's perspective and based on some of the other comments it doesn't matter any more. In this situation because he has money he can get away with it. It's shameful and I am disgusted with the City. It is yet another example of how corruption, money and power rule.

Yes, better for the city to have that crumbling building fixed up.

And no one is suggesting the his crimes should be forgotten or that the victims of his crimes have suffered, and probably will forever. To suggest otherwise is disingenuous.

Forgot the word "not"

Should have read:

....or that the victims of his crimes have NOT suffered.

So, in your opinion, if you commit a crime, you should never be allowed to do business ever again.

For a guy that complains about ad hominem attacks, you're sure big on the strawmen.

CWD said:

Sexual assault is a CRIME. But I guess from the City's perspective and based on some of the other comments it doesn't matter any more.

He's clearly stating that, in his opinion, anyone who has been charged with a "CRIME" should not be able to do business with the city.

Sounds to me like CWD is saying someone convicted of a crime shouldn't be able to get free money from the city, not that they shouldn't be able to do business.

Eli Lapp: This gun of the hand is for the taking of human life. We believe it is wrong to take a life. That is only for God. Many times wars have come and people have said to us: you must fight, you must kill, it is the only way to preserve the good. But Samuel, there's never only one way. Remember that. Would you kill another man?

Samuel Lapp: I would only kill the bad man.

Eli Lapp: Only the bad man. I see. And you know these bad men by sight? You are able to look into their hearts and see this badness?

Samuel Lapp: I can see what they do. I have seen it.

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I agree strongly with this article. Notice we never hear about the upstanding developers downtown as they simply don't want to deal with the city. There are many developments that occur, but it seems that the questionable characters are the ones that tap into the public dollars or hold the city ransom or threaten demolition or bad mouth the city until they get their way.

Simply put, we need to stop rewarding people who have demonstrated bad judgement and behaviour. Until then, the core will be more vranichtown than downtown and that's frankly not going to get us where we need to go.

Appearently you're eligible for a pardon on an indictable offense after five years.

It's not just the sex crimes.

First there's the numerous derelict buildings left to rot or burn (how many times did this one catch fire?), along with fire code citations. Then there's the bribery allegations. The unpermitted parking lots. It's not like the city hasn't had to demand these loans back from Vrancor before...

Oh, and the Rok Bar is now getting publicly denounced for wage theft from the waitresses.

There is every reason to be outraged here.

The outrage in the second paragraph is legitimate but seems to relate to the actions of the father and not the son. Am I wrong?

I think you're right about the illegal parking lots, but the bribery allegations were Denis, and he also owns 220 Dundurn.

Right you are. For some reason I had it in my head that Moodie was linked to Darko. Goes to my point, I suppose.

http://www.thespec.com/mobile/news/article/254458--municipal-corruption-charges-tossed-out

Not that this excuses any bad actor, but in my experience both developers and nightclub managers tend to be alpha males of flexible morality. The more prominent/prolific they are, the more this tendency expresses itself. Broad brush strokes.

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(Being willfully blind to sarcasm)

It's already made the south side of King St unusable as a walking route for weeks. Although the city should share the blame for not cordoning off a temporary walkway.