Raise the Hammer

What is with these silly height restrictions!?!

Talk to neighbourhood associations, specifically the Durane Neighbourhood Association, about to enter its 40th year. Despite the DNA's numerous successes, there are also inconsistencies, and the Thistle Club site would still be a mud lot if the development discussion was still on the tenor of the late 80s, when that development saga began.

http://www.durandna.com/history.htm

As for the Staybridge? It's, well, a hotel. Adding 12 floors would have changed the project costs and therefore timeline, which would mean that you'd be currently looking at a dirt lot with a fence around it. Despite the self-interested spin of Tourism Hamilton, downtown hotel capacity is only an issue when the city is hosting major conferences or large sporting invitationals downtown.

In general, though, demand is pretty thin, generally hovering around 50% occupancy, which is below London, K/W/Cambridge/Guelph, the entirety of the GTA and the provincial average. That's one reason why the Connaught is doing so well and the Crowne Plaza owner cut bait to go work on the mountain. (Your diagnosis of the Hamilton Grand, another dirt lot, is up to you.) And of course, Mr. Vranich also owns the 18-storey Sheraton two blocks to the NE, which creates ample reason not to be unduly competitive.

In general, though, it's easier to overcome zoning restrictions than neighbourhood objections.

Molinaro Group wanted to build a condo tower at Thistle Club but was opposed by the DNA, so they sold the site to the current developer. If not for the DNA, we'd have a new 20+ storey condo tower already built on that site.

Molinaro instead is focusing on Burlington (one of our suburbs) where they are allowed to go 20-30 stories. Heck, even suburban Burlington (oxymoron?) is getting a sharp looking 16 storey condo tower as we speak: http://www.ironstonecondominiums.com/

And we already know about the ultimate suburban ring in Peel region - Mississuaga is going for taller buildings now after realizing the error of their low-density ways. Even Brampton is allowing taller development than Hamilton: http://www.lovelivingdowntownbrampton.co...

Oh, and the sleepy town of supposed NIMBY's - Oakville: http://raincondosoakville.ca/

Hamilton is truly at risk of being left behind once again if we don't ease up on the red-tape ticker parade. It's fine to have neighbourhood associations, and they can do good work in ensuring good design etc.... but to simply oppose anything over 9 stories because a few people think that's a good idea is a wrong way to run a city. We have a 43 storey tower at Main and Catharine that we built in the 70's. Now we won't allow 15 or 20 stories??

Even the short, modest proposal right downtown at King and Queen is being taken to the OMB and one of the objections is height. Some local NIMBY's want it shrunk to 6 floors from an already short 12 floors, despite Queen north and south having several 20+ storey buildings from the 70's.
Most cities try to go taller with time and build their core neighbourhoods and skyline. We're trying to do the opposite.

Well said Jason.

you're against adding high quality density in downtown Hamilton?

Comment edited by mystoneycreek on 2011-12-24 18:26:56

Oh I hope you are dead wrong.

Height restrictions make sense... in some neighbourhoods. Downtown? Not so much. Perhaps if market demand gets stronger, the city will have to revisit certain zoning restrictions.

There are also several cranes at the Woodward Ave. water treatment plants.

The city will never hit it's density targets with current height restrictions.

I get that they don't want 40 story buildings in the middle of residential neighbourhoods, like we had happen in the 70s, but to limit new buildings in and around those areas to 7 or 12 stories is nonsense. It's like someone just painted the height restrictions across downtown haphazardly, failing to consider the character of the actual neighbourhoods.

Same with that stupid potential widening of Main St. If they ever widen Main Street through the downtown I think I will have to move out of Hamilton.

'behind Centre Maul.' um thanks that was really woke me up! ... know to change the signs along barton to the new spelling!

I really wish there was a mall on Garth street.

Garth is mostly houses, but there is a mall down Mohawk. More like a plaza - Westcliffe I think? Limeridge is close though...why a mall on Garth??

Westcliffe is an interior mall at Upper Paradise. It's actually a decent mall considering it's midway between Lime Ridge and Meadowlands it does fairly well, even though the LCBO left it for Meadowlands. And the Mall suffered another loss with the removal of the weekly Bookmobile stop, but still this little mall chugs along.

An interior mall like Westcliffe was a respite for me when my children were young and in the middle of cabin fever in February, it was at least a place to go for a couple hours and let the children loose somewhere other than a living room. It became our second living room, walk around the dollar store, visit the bookmobile, get a pizza, roam Home Hardware and the video store, pick up some essentials at the Rexall and supermarket, dream about a vacation in TripCentral. It's quiet and small enough to be able to do that, not like Lime Ridge where the children would be run over by mad shoppers. And Meadowlands isn't a mall so it's useless for that kind of strolling around.

When I lived in PEI, Westcliffe would've been considered a huge mall.

Garth has the Shoppers plaza at Garrow, there is no place to put a mall.

Comment edited by TreyS on 2011-12-29 12:37:27

Okay, time to put this to bed: It was a pun. A bad pun. rednic said "behind Centre maul" with the violent homophone used in the place of "mall".

Maul is also the title of a star wars character Darth Maul. Hence my request for a Garth Mall. See?

Aaaaand now I've taken the joke out back behind the chemical sheds and shot it.

LOL. that went right over my head, but very well done. I knew I was missing something...kept thinking 'there has to be more between the lines that I'm missing than a random request for a mall on Garth'.

I actually thought the same thing and got a kick out of your posts.

I also learned a few things from the responses of the others, since the West Mountain is an area I don't really know well. But those weren't the factoids you were looking for... move along, move along.

Just ask my friend Jed. I might think other neighborhoods are lording their commercial successes over the Garth Mall, but such a thing could be the first episode of a new hope for the mountain. Maybe they could even get a stadium one day too? That would make us see the neighborhood in a new light. Sabres playing any time soon?

/I'm a terrible person.

"Hey BigBee, why don't you guys go make like a big bee and build an urban supermarket for downtown?"

I wouldn't imagine it'd go much further east than the current Big Bee (The Barn, while further north, was only on the other side of the street, for example.)

Hopefully it'd be more than just a supersized BB. Occasional use takes the sting out of convenience store pricing, but for regular grocery shopping, it'd be a real drag.

Totally agree on Dundurn... and a part of me hates that fact. I hate it because I know that when Dundurn takes off, Vrancor is going to make a goddamned mint off of whatever they do with 220 Dundurn, that damnable eyesore that is half the reason Dundurn hasn't taken off. The man who is doing the most damage to the area stands the most to gain when it succeeds in spite of him.

The Durand neighborhood will never be the same again. We have very little parking as it is. The Charlton Ave and Bay st section surrounding this building are already busy as all get out during rush hour. This influx of new residents is only going to compound the existing problems of high traffic, one way streets, lack of parking, noise pollution and more fumes. Yes the condo will have in-house parking, but there are always extra vehicles from people visiting, etc... As for traffic, most of these new residents will be adding cars to the already glutted streets during rush hour.

The company putting up this building is using the proximity to downtown and the Go station as a plus for prospective buyers. Having lived in this neighborhood for almost 8 years now, I see very few people actually walking downtown or to the Go station, but many riding their car. Will this bring an hsr route change or addition? Bay street south could use a bus running down its' length to the downtown core. And since these buildings are being promoted as a great family environment, again, can the local school handle the influx of students?

The only good thing I can see is that our park will finally be used to its' full capacity.

With all due respect, I don't agree with this at all. Having lived in Durand and still being in Durand many times a week I find that it's streets have some of the lowest traffic volumes in the lower city, which is amazing considering it's density. Sure, the hospital drives traffic on Charlton/Herkimer and the Mountain Access drives traffic on James, but other than that, Durand is a great place to walk or cycle. Very low and slow traffic. I agree a bus on Bay would make sense, along with wider sidewalks, but in the mornings there is a steady stream of folks walking downtown from Durand. Ditto for the afternoon and then the evening shopping/dining/nightlife crowd. More quality condos will add even more people to the streets and hopefully sustain more businesses on James, King etc....

I used to live at 200 bay and never found the traffic bad. The parking, I agree... but that was more a matter of supply and demand, and the fact that the City didn't put enough meters up to properly manage the supply. The only times I had trouble was when I was inviting guests.

funny you should mention that. I had a friend who lived there and a few of us would go over to play squash and swim once a week. I always had no problem getting a parking spot right on Bay St, directly in front of the building. Didn't matter if it was morning or evening, the times I was there with a car, parking was a snap.

wow you are spinning a tangled web of hyperbole. As another Durand resident, let me add a completely opposite view: there is a steady stream of people walking along Bold, Robinson, Duke, and Hunter to the Go station and downtown, at almost all hours of the day. Bay is a busy street, yes, so are Herkimer and Hunter, but they only feel busy because they're screaming one-way racetracks, especially Bay because it's downhill. There will be absolutely no difference to those streets because of this development, The only gridlock you get in the whole neighbourhood is a bit on Queen and James during rush hour, and that's people going to and from the Mountain. I can be on the highway in 3 minutes almost anytime of the day, and that's ridiculous; if it were Toronto it would take 10. Yes there will also be the 'fumes' and noise of 300 extra bodies: get over it or move to the country. That's what a city is all about. As for parking, here's the fix: charge for it. No more free parking.

As for your post Pxtl about Vrancor, I'd say it should be getting a little tougher for people to vent about Vranich. The man has spent a boatload more cash in downtown in the last few years than any other developer. I don't think he's a good person or cares about anything other than the bottom line, but at least he's doing something. The fault for 220 Dundurn is the stupid vacant building rebate, and that's a provincial law. But blaming a developer for sitting on a property is like blaming a vulture for eating a carcass.

You described some of the negative results of intensification that were laid out here very well

https://tx.proxfree.com/page.php?get=yfI9bB%2B8NNXA%2BTXBblWtCpwyZgDNMLB%2FQohSgq1z1XzpE1%2BgEz%2B4CmZM3KcAAsyJZNj0FUBtLDdlBsWErDXDjg%3D%3D&sa=d23b7bced8&bit=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOHnjCY1E...

one of the many benefits of intensification:

http://switchboard.nrdc.org/blogs/cpeppa...

I think Durand can totally integrate several 20+floors of density. It handles its density very well right now. Go walk around Durand Park and area on a Saturday/Sunday morning, it's quieter than a West Mountain side street.

If ever there was a parcel of land, sitting in Hamilton waiting for a skyscraper breaking development it was the Thistle Club site. I'm not against what is proposed/being built. But those two towers should be signatures on our skyline in that area. Maybe tower 2 can reneg with the City and try for a taller.

And what happened to Durand Park's cherry trees? To me it was my mini version of D.C., even though Durands cherry trees were about a month later in bloom. Please bring back the cherry trees.

The lose of trees (and the budgets to maintain the ones we still have) is a huge issue that isn't getting nearly enough attention in Hamilton. In fact, I can't think of a clearer example of our Council being penny-wise pound-foolish than this (and that's saying a lot!).
Check out these CATCH articles... http://hamiltoncatch.org./view_article.php?id=930 and http://hamiltoncatch.org./view_article.php?id=1015 (last paragraph). They only scratch the surface.
Skyscrapers are nice but... I think that will never see a crane as lovely as a tree.

Actually the suggestion at the end of the lecture was to regulate car ownership within the intensified area not to make driving more difficult. There is a world of difference between the 2 concepts. One would take cars off the road relieving congestion, the other would not remove any cars and would potentially add even more congestion

Glad to see some positive residential developments in the dt. It looks like developers are starting to notice some of the potential in Hamilton's dt. However I am concerned that Hamilton is becoming a bedroom of the GTA. Hopefully it won't be long before developers take note of Hamilton's cheap office rentals rates and start constructing/occupying office space in this city. In order for Hamilton to become more sustainable financially we must grow the commercial and industrial tax bases and not rely too much on residential.

Height restrictions have got to go - at least in the downtown core. While I am glad to see that downtown is becoming more dense (as downtowns should be - that's what makes it downtown!) I don't believe in artificial density targets or excessive zoning restrictions that would only drive up real estate costs. People seeking density have the option of living a downtown lifestyle, while people seeking lower density have to choice of suburbs or exurbs.

Happy new year!

The Spec had a story today about more potential cranes this year, including one for Harry's Incredible Shrinking Building... just kidding, as it is nice to finally hear some positive news about that site. More joking: should it now be called the "Hamilton Not-as-Grand"?

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/articl...

Not sure I'd call this a "boom" yet but it's all relative. The amount of construction activity in the central city is a nice change from only a few years ago, and hopefully the momentum builds (pun intended).

Now if something could just get moving on the Connaught...

Agreed. I'm glad to see construction actually happening now, rather than more 'planned developments' of which we've had too many of over the past few years.

Not holding my breath over the Charlton East redevelopment of the Hamilton Cab site, though...

The interesting thing about height restrictions is that they usually exist for a reason.

Montreal has a height restriction, that is buildings must be smaller than Mt. Royal. Fair enough, that still allows for some tall towers in the city.

Vancouver has a height restriction due to earthquakes, similar to Tokyo for the same reason. Not sure if this is valid, has Vancouver checked-out the towers in Seattle or LA?

Ottawa has height restrictions so that no building towers over the Parliament building.

Hamilton... no reason. The City just wanted to make work for themselves. And don't get me started on "parking requirements". I'm not sure what is more stupid, mandatory parking spaces or height restrictions???

both are stupid, but I give the nod to parking requirements as the real development killer. Hamilton Parking runs the city...much to our detriment. Yea, height restrictions in Durand are pretty hilarious. City Square can only be 9 stories, across the street from a slew of 20+ storey buildings.

Any updates coming soon???

Nice to see my pictures being put to good use. I think almost all of these are mine.